Bastard Evil Dog Things!

CloudNine

Picture of @Headphones in his cycling clothes. 

stonevibe

Cycle faster and outrun the dog?

Maybe not practical on all cycle paths, hills etc

I have a Staffie and she is slow as hell, so you'd outrun her trying to lick you. I would let the police know though, as as has already been mentioned the dogs could chase a kid.

Been chased by dogs myself whilst out cycling and I just speed up and leave them behind.

Sassafras

Headphones said:

This is taking a turn - the victim of a dog attack is now being questioned for the clothes you're guessing they wore?

To be clear - brown walking shoes, khaki shorts, black helmet, grey tee shirt - with "fretboard..." ..

That's your problem right there. 
The dogs were probably TGP members.

breakstuff

Headphones said:

Jalapeno said:

The HiViz questioner made it perfectly clear he was NOT victim blaming

pretty much what he did though!

Read it again. He didn't. 

digitalscream

Headphones said:

Jalapeno said:

The HiViz questioner made it perfectly clear he was NOT victim blaming

pretty much what he did though!

OK, action replay...

digitalscream said:

Headphones said:

However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?

That means exactly what it says on the tin. I had a theory, and I wondered if your experience might happen to be anecdotal evidence in support of it.

Headphones

digitalscream said:

Headphones said:

Jalapeno said:

The HiViz questioner made it perfectly clear he was NOT victim blaming

pretty much what he did though!

OK, action replay...

digitalscream said:

Headphones said:

However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?

That means exactly what it says on the tin. I had a theory, and I wondered if your experience might happen to be anecdotal evidence in support of it.

With the greatest respect, etc.

Let's drop this theme - I'm well and truly over this bit!

Now - stopping dogs chewing on us innocents?

stonevibe

Cover yourself in peanut butter and they will lick you to death instead.

Only issue, is dog owner may report you to the police for being a pervert.

capo4th

Let’s discuss joggers and dogs. My dog loves a jogger in lycra and high vis.

digitalscream

Headphones said:

With the greatest respect, etc.

Let's drop this theme - I'm well and truly over this bit!

Now - stopping dogs chewing on us innocents?

Well, if you want to drop something, it helps if you don't put words in someone's mouth that are easily dismissable on the same page

However, it's possible it might actually be a valid avoidance strategy, if it turns out that's the case. Having done a bit of Googling, it seems that there may well be more than a grain of truth to it - UV-reflective clothing does appear to increase the state of arousal in many dogs, especially in fast-moving circumstances.

So...it kind of answers your question, with the caveat that there's rarely a single reason that a dog will exhibit chase/biting behaviour. Again, not victim-blaming - you're neither a "dog person", and this is a very non-obvious thing (hell, I'm both dog-enthusiastic and a science-minded person, and I didn't know much about it), and you haven't said whether you were wearing UV-reflective clothing or not.

However, if you're cycling during the day, it's entirely possible that wearing such clothing might increase the chance of a dangerous situation developing. Whether you do so in future is entirely down to your own estimation of the relative risks (ie how much non-canine-related risk is mitigated by such clothing, relative to the risk of being chased by dogs).

Other than that, you've pretty much already had responses covering all the possible bases in answer to that question in the thread...?

dindude

digitalscream said:

Snags said:

As a general aside, it's also always a good idea not to stroke/pat dogs on the head. Most of them tolerate it because they're conditioned to, but in the general case they don't actually like it, and if you have one that's a bit borderline, it'll treat it as an act of aggression/threat and respond in kind. Chest rubs for the win (with friendly dogs, not rabid arseholes).

This is something that a lot of people don't realise. Reaching over a dog's head makes them really uncomfortable - if your hand is approaching from the front, reach slowly for the side of their head, because it gives them a choice without adopting a defensive posture; if they're not interested, they can just move their head away. If they are, they can move towards.

tony99 said:

digitalscream said:

Headphones said:

This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.

However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?

yeah he was done up like mark knopfler on the cover of money for nothing

Actually, this is based on a bit of science and a bit of experience. A couple of our dogs have reacted defensively (which was quite out of character for them) whenever approached by anybody wearing high-vis jackets. A bit of research indicates that canine vision extends at least as far as the UV part of the spectrum (hence knowing exactly where other dogs have peed, even from a distance or in conditions where accurate positioning via smell wouldn't be possible).

Extrapolating a bit...what if that part of the spectrum looks like it does to us - but stronger than the "glow" we see from the reflective parts of high-vis jackets? Those people might practically look like they're on fire, which - to a dog - would be pretty bloody scary.

Utterly irrelevant - why should an innocent member of the public need to become a dog phycologist to stay safe  - responsibility lies with the dog owner alone. 

digitalscream

dindude said:

digitalscream said:

Snags said:

As a general aside, it's also always a good idea not to stroke/pat dogs on the head. Most of them tolerate it because they're conditioned to, but in the general case they don't actually like it, and if you have one that's a bit borderline, it'll treat it as an act of aggression/threat and respond in kind. Chest rubs for the win (with friendly dogs, not rabid arseholes).

This is something that a lot of people don't realise. Reaching over a dog's head makes them really uncomfortable - if your hand is approaching from the front, reach slowly for the side of their head, because it gives them a choice without adopting a defensive posture; if they're not interested, they can just move their head away. If they are, they can move towards.

tony99 said:

digitalscream said:

Headphones said:

This is fascinating to read - thanks all!

What you''ve all said strikes a strong chord about owners and control, clearly a societal/education issue, but tough to adress at 17:24 yesterday evening!

I confess to a true LOL with the finger up...   I don't plan to follow that as advice though!

Given that I've no detail whatsoever on the lady/dogs (I didn't even photo), I'm pretty sure I'll struggle with Plod, so that ship's sailed - unless I see her this afternoon.

However, I'm still at a loss as to how to defend myself effectively - which is the problem!  If this recurs this afternoon, what do I do this time?

This isn't victim-blaming at all, but...I've got a theory and I'm curious - were you wearing any fluorescent or reflective clothing?

yeah he was done up like mark knopfler on the cover of money for nothing

Actually, this is based on a bit of science and a bit of experience. A couple of our dogs have reacted defensively (which was quite out of character for them) whenever approached by anybody wearing high-vis jackets. A bit of research indicates that canine vision extends at least as far as the UV part of the spectrum (hence knowing exactly where other dogs have peed, even from a distance or in conditions where accurate positioning via smell wouldn't be possible).

Extrapolating a bit...what if that part of the spectrum looks like it does to us - but stronger than the "glow" we see from the reflective parts of high-vis jackets? Those people might practically look like they're on fire, which - to a dog - would be pretty bloody scary.

Utterly irrelevant - why should an innocent member of the public need to become a dog phycologist to stay safe  - responsibility lies with the dog owner alone. 

I never suggested that the responsibility lay with anybody else. I'm just saying that if somebody were looking for ways to mitigate the risk on the assumptions that there might be irresponsible dog owners around, then this might be a useful candidate. Another way to use the information might be to cover up or remove any reflective clothing if you see a dog/some dogs running towards you, because - armed with that knowledge, and regardless of blame (which stays the same irrespective of the outcome) - "not being bitten" is self-evidently much better outcome than "being bitten", in my opinion.

That's assuming that you're responding to the second part of my comment. If you're talking about the first part...approaching a dog when you don't know the first thing about the dog or how dogs react to certain actions is a pretty bloody stupid thing to do and the owner is generally not responsible for what happens next. That's pretty common sense and common knowledge, and most people I know have been taught that since they were kids. This is actually something I wish would be taught in schools, mind, given the number of people who insist on getting in my dog's personal space despite me telling them a) not to, and b) that they're behaving in a way that's going to make my very large dog stressed, which isn't a good thing for anybody.

robgilmo

digitalscream said:

robgilmo said:

digitalscream said:

tony99 said:

yeah, call the police with 2 staffies hanging off your ankles

the way to deal with them is to snap their legs mate, either the two front legs away from their chest, or two hind legs away from the groin, then, only then, when you're safe, you can phone the police

(some people say you should stick a finger up the dog's hoop but that's not my bag at all)

That's a pretty disgusting attitude. That is not the best way to deal with them.

Actually spreading their front legs is the quickest and safest way to put an aggressive dog down if its attacking you. Putting your finger in their bum Im not so sure about.

That's not what was said, though, is it? "snap their legs mate"

And, by the way, that's not the best way, because it puts both your hands and your face in range of the dog's teeth. Honestly, it's a pretty daft (and cruel) way to defend yourself.

The best way is actually to allow the dog to bite something on you that's not actually you - a jacket, shirt, whatever - to distract them. Even better if you can cover their head with it. If you get bitten, don't pull away (difficult) but use your other hand and grab their back legs and lift them off the ground, which has the effect of completely immobilising the dog and keeping the pointy end away from you. From there, you can just wheelbarrow them around until help arrives.

Other than that, keeping them at a distance is the most sensible option. You have legs, which are longer than the useful range of dogs' teeth. The whole point is to keep as much of yourself away from the dangerous end of the dog.

And, of course, there are exceptions - all of this is out of the window if there are two dogs, and if you've got a Great Dane after you (highly unlikely, they can't be arsed with anything)...pretty much anything on the dog is longer than anything you've got, so I don't know...climb a tree?

EDIT: None of this is criticism of the OP, by the way - as far as I can tell, he did everything right in terms of keeping the dogs at a distance and preventing anything worse form happening. Without wishing to diminish what was obviously a scary experience...scratches and wet patches sort of indicate that the dogs weren't trying to cause damage, so it was either a fear thing or they've had absolutely terrible training and have no concept of boundaries, socialisation or bite inhibition.

Each to their own, Id rather just snap its chest open than allow it to bite me.

digitalscream

robgilmo said:

Each to their own, Id rather just snap its chest open than allow it to bite me.

When you're fully aware that there are more effective ways to deal with it that are safer for both you and the dog?

Then I offer a correction: that makes you both disgusting and stupid.

robgilmo

digitalscream said:

Headphones said:

With the greatest respect, etc.

Let's drop this theme - I'm well and truly over this bit!

Now - stopping dogs chewing on us innocents?

Well, if you want to drop something, it helps if you don't put words in someone's mouth that are easily dismissable on the same page

However, it's possible it might actually be a valid avoidance strategy, if it turns out that's the case. Having done a bit of Googling, it seems that there may well be more than a grain of truth to it - UV-reflective clothing does appear to increase the state of arousal in many dogs, especially in fast-moving circumstances.

So...it kind of answers your question, with the caveat that there's rarely a single reason that a dog will exhibit chase/biting behaviour. Again, not victim-blaming - you're neither a "dog person", and this is a very non-obvious thing (hell, I'm both dog-enthusiastic and a science-minded person, and I didn't know much about it), and you haven't said whether you were wearing UV-reflective clothing or not.

However, if you're cycling during the day, it's entirely possible that wearing such clothing might increase the chance of a dangerous situation developing. Whether you do so in future is entirely down to your own estimation of the relative risks (ie how much non-canine-related risk is mitigated by such clothing, relative to the risk of being chased by dogs).

Other than that, you've pretty much already had responses covering all the possible bases in answer to that question in the thread...?

I think dog owners allowing their dogs to run free in any public place is how the chance of a dangerous situation developing increases. Its akin to me bringing Yogi Bear to the park then asking people eating picnics not too in case Yogi steals their food, and BooBoo.

digitalscream

robgilmo said:

digitalscream said:

Headphones said:

With the greatest respect, etc.

Let's drop this theme - I'm well and truly over this bit!

Now - stopping dogs chewing on us innocents?

Well, if you want to drop something, it helps if you don't put words in someone's mouth that are easily dismissable on the same page

However, it's possible it might actually be a valid avoidance strategy, if it turns out that's the case. Having done a bit of Googling, it seems that there may well be more than a grain of truth to it - UV-reflective clothing does appear to increase the state of arousal in many dogs, especially in fast-moving circumstances.

So...it kind of answers your question, with the caveat that there's rarely a single reason that a dog will exhibit chase/biting behaviour. Again, not victim-blaming - you're neither a "dog person", and this is a very non-obvious thing (hell, I'm both dog-enthusiastic and a science-minded person, and I didn't know much about it), and you haven't said whether you were wearing UV-reflective clothing or not.

However, if you're cycling during the day, it's entirely possible that wearing such clothing might increase the chance of a dangerous situation developing. Whether you do so in future is entirely down to your own estimation of the relative risks (ie how much non-canine-related risk is mitigated by such clothing, relative to the risk of being chased by dogs).

Other than that, you've pretty much already had responses covering all the possible bases in answer to that question in the thread...?

I think dog owners allowing their dogs to run free in any public place is how the chance of a dangerous situation developing increases. Its akin to me bringing Yogi Bear to the park then asking people eating picnics not too in case Yogi steals their food, and BooBoo.

I think it's pretty clear that I'm talking about how people can reduce the chance of being seen as a target on the assumption that there are idiots out there who let their dogs run free in public (which, if you've read any of the rest of the thread, I've already said is colossally stupid and irresponsible).

vasselmeyer

Diluted lemon juice in a water pistol should do it. No permanent damage but very uncomfortable.

I've got a 6 month old pup and he just loves people and it's really difficult to stop him from jumping up with paws out for a cuddle. We think it's adorable but I'm absolutely aware other people may not. Therefore he stays on the lead whenever any other people or dogs are around. He's a quick learner though so I'm sure he'll soon learn what's appropriate and what's not.

Budgie

Unless you have full control and are certain your dog will come back when told, it should be on a lead in public, end of story. Loose dogs are a pain in the arse for everyone and potentially dangerous to anyone or anything they suddenly decide to get aggressive with. 

I live in a rural area where, ordinarily, you rarely see another dog walker on local footpaths but since lockdown it’s been a nightmare with dogs off leads who don’t respond to their owners. My dog has been attacked several times. I now take a stick with me when I go out and have used it twice.

tony99

Budgie said:

I live in a rural area where, ordinarily, you rarely see another dog walker on local footpaths but since lockdown it’s been a nightmare with dogs off leads who don’t respond to their owners. My dog has been attacked several times. I now take a stick with me when I go out and have used it twice.

You're suggesting to throw the stick and then run away when the attack dog goes to fetch it ?

kin

 Are there any good reasons for not having mandatory muzzles on any dog outside of its home? 

Can a muzzle be dangerous to the dog wearing it? 

The license thing is not policeable.  

Budgie

tony99 said:

Budgie said:

I live in a rural area where, ordinarily, you rarely see another dog walker on local footpaths but since lockdown it’s been a nightmare with dogs off leads who don’t respond to their owners. My dog has been attacked several times. I now take a stick with me when I go out and have used it twice.

You're suggesting to throw the stick and then run away when the attack dog goes to fetch it ?

Yes, just like that(ish)