Allan Holdsworth- help guide me through the back catalogue.

Redlester

So I was going to title this thread- Allan Holdsworth- Where to begin?, but I realised there were negative connotations to that, and he is a player who splits opinions. So this isn’t an AH sceptic but someone who want to know more. 

Any suggestions for key recordings/ personal faves etc gratefully received. 

I don’t mind how out there things get- I listen to jazz and am familiar with all sorts of stuff. In fact there’s a Robben Ford quote I came across on the net claiming that AH is like the John Coltrane of the guitar. Holdsworth isn’t in Coltrane’s league as a soloist or musician and certainly not as a composer IMO, however, I can hear there’s a total mastery of scales, harmony, chordal knowledge etc that is Coltrane-like, and AH has his own ‘sheets of sound’ approach and fluency which is vastly to his credit.  

So I am interested and happy to hear what you throw my way.

I started with a video last night -Live in Tokyo 1984 and thought it was very, very good in places.  And boy can AH ‘play the changes’ at speed like hardly any other guitar player I’ve heard. 

Thanks.  

Fretwired

I have quite a few Holdsworth albums.

UK -UK is a good album in a band format

Gong - Gazeuse is very good as well

Solo albums:

All night wrong is good - it's a live album

16 men of Tain is good as is Wardenclyffe Tower and Hard hat area

He uses a lot of Synthaxe on some albums ...

Fretwired

Listen to this ...

Fretwired

And this ...

Fretwired

And this ...

Philtre

What I want to know is how he got his mid-range over-driven lead tone (the gear, not "it's all in the fingers")

Redlester

@Fretwired Thank you very much for the response. Plenty of lockdown listening there. 

Fretwired

Philtre said:

What I want to know is how he got his mid-range over-driven lead tone (the gear, not "it's all in the fingers")

He had the magic Holdsworth pedal ..

Philtre

Fretwired said:

Philtre said:

What I want to know is how he got his mid-range over-driven lead tone (the gear, not "it's all in the fingers")

He had the magic Holdsworth pedal ..

I had one of those and it didn't make me sound anything like AH. That pedal is really a boost of AH's already baked tone.

Fretwired

Philtre said:

Fretwired said:

Philtre said:

What I want to know is how he got his mid-range over-driven lead tone (the gear, not "it's all in the fingers")

He had the magic Holdsworth pedal ..

I had one of those and it didn't make me sound anything like AH. That pedal is really a boost of AH's already baked tone.

I was being facetious ..Steve Vai famously said he watched Holdsworth and couldn't understand nor workout what he was doing - he was a one off. All in his fingers and his brain that saw possibilities most players couldn't comprehend.

Just marvel at a great guitarist.

althy

as @Fretwired said, 16 men of tain and all night wrong are great albums. 
I think Allan holdsworth compares better to Michael Brecker than Coltrane despite being hugely influenced by the later. There is also a lot of Corea and Henderson but mainly Holdsworth.
Very graceful musician that played the most beautiful chord/melody solo-intros live

digitalkettle

I like '16 Men of Tain'...and 'Wardenclyffe Tower' (which is a lot more synthy).

Although, I think you've got to start with 'Road Games' and 'Metal Fatigue'...just check out 'Devil Take the Hindmost'...wow!

Tbh, you'd do well to get the 'Against the Clock' best of double album.

Streaming platforms have 'The Man Who Changed Guitar Forever' which appears to be everything...so that might be overwhelming.

Warning: there are occasional vocal tunes and abstract pieces which are an acquired taste...but no-one's here for an easy listen, right?

andy_k

'Devil take the hindmost' was the first thing I heard, on a Guitar magazine flexi disc, it's probably an easy intro to AH, I like a few tracks here and there, and just the other day came across some stuff live with EVH. Eddie wanted to help produce an album with Allan, but the deal fell through. I think Ed's influence on Allan's tone would have been interesting.
The same Guitar mag had a disc featuring Bill Connors, variations on Layla, and BC was being widely criticised for 'ripping off' Allan, definitely not the case really, but easy to understand. Connors had a more 'rock' angle to a similar style of music as Allan.
It is pretty tragic that a player with the talent Holdsworth had, still could't find commercial success.

Not related at all, but I heard a demo version of 'Yankee Rose' today, Jason Becker's audition tape for Dave Lee Roth.
It got him the job a bit later, and he recorded 'A little aint enough' album, and then was struck down with ALS, the same disease that ended Stephen Hawkins life. I think Jason was one of the youngest people to suffer from this condition, and I can't bring myself to find out how it has progressed. Such a shame.

digitalkettle

andy_k said:

Not related at all, but I heard a demo version of 'Yankee Rose' today, Jason Becker's audition tape for Dave Lee Roth.
It got him the job a bit later, and he recorded 'A little aint enough' album, and then was struck down with ALS, the same disease that ended Stephen Hawkins life. I think Jason was one of the youngest people to suffer from this condition, and I can't bring myself to find out how it has progressed. Such a shame.

Jason's 'not dead yet' (as he would say)

I think he's doing incredibly actually...still producing music!

andy_k

digitalkettle said:

andy_k said:

Not related at all, but I heard a demo version of 'Yankee Rose' today, Jason Becker's audition tape for Dave Lee Roth.
It got him the job a bit later, and he recorded 'A little aint enough' album, and then was struck down with ALS, the same disease that ended Stephen Hawkins life. I think Jason was one of the youngest people to suffer from this condition, and I can't bring myself to find out how it has progressed. Such a shame.

Jason's 'not dead yet' (as he would say)

I think he's doing incredibly actually...still producing music!

Thanks, that is good news, I didn't want to go looking, it's been a tough week. Some good news for a change.

DrJazzTap

I'm a huge holdsworth fan, I was lucky enough to get my SG signed by him when he played the glitzy heights of Swindon. 

He did a best of album called Against the clock. That's a good introduction, some of his stuff is a bit eclectic. But I love that, id rather have five completely different albums than five albums that all sound the same. 

I would suggest ..iou (his first), wardenclyffe tower (which has zarabeth on, imho the finest example of guitar soloing ever recorded), the sixteen men of tain (a bit more jazzy). 

Holdsworth had a real fear of releasing live albums, because he was so incredibly hyper critical of his own playing. So the two that were officially released are worth checking out. Then! Is from a Japanese tour and that has some other worldly playing on and "all night wrong" is the same club I believe but a few decades later. Again staggering playing, but not for the faint of heart a lot of full on soloing.

In regards to his tone, you can kind of get in the ball park with a boosted lead tone and knocking the volume pot down to 8. But he used a lot of different equipment from solid state amps through to dual recs etc. He used light strings and played very softly i think.

His iou stuff  was a charvel superstrat with a Seymour duncan custom custom into a Hartley Thompson solid state amp. Then later on around Then! Mesa dual recs playing a bill delap custom headless guitar with a mxr line booster and a few pieces of his own homemade gear. Clean tone from fender twins. Around the sixteen men of tain time he was playing his carvin signature model into yamaha dg modelling amps. 

As for Coltrane comparison, meh I don't really hear it. The flurry of notes and his soloing approach, sure i understand why people would draw that comparison. Holdsworth was a pioneer, he didn't want to sound like an old bluesman.
His father once said to him that if he felt the need to play a pentatonic blues shape  he should imagine somebody slitting his wrists!
Although he loved Coltrane and other saxophonists, he also loved the cello, debussy and ravel. Oh and Tony Williams believe it, is essential listening. Have fun and enjoy!

digitalkettle

Speaking of live albums, has anyone mentioned ‘Blues for Tony’ yet?

guitarmangler

digitalkettle said:

Speaking of live albums, has anyone mentioned ‘Blues for Tony’ yet?

Blues for Tony is awesome, as is the live video that goes with it. It features Alan Pasqua on rhodes who was the same keyboard player in the Tony Williams lifetime albums Allan was on. They are both a great albums with Allan on.

Allan’s albums with Gordon beck are great , too, with a heart in my song and none too soon. 

The live album All night wrong is pretty amazing as is the sublime Sixteen men. My favourite is still Hard Hat Area. Gary Husband and Allan made a great team.

guitarmangler

Regarding the lead tone, Yamaha dg’s (or magic stomp) and either his signature boost (which is awesome, and so loud) or an old TC boost will get you almost  there. He tended to run amps controls like using a Mesa mark series, bass off, mids up, treble low. Then after the amp use a parametric eq to add bass back in and ‘shave’ out treble (he called amps  too hairy and they needed a ‘shave’) basically knock off anything above 4K. 
During lockdown I’ve been trying to squeeze these sounds just from inside my helix lt through headphones and am getting close. He only ever used delay, never reverb,  but I’ve found using a reverb with a mix just above 50% helps .
For clean sounds get the UD stomp, or a magic stomp.