RIP: 747

fandango

Picked up on this a few days ago .... looks a beast in KLM livery.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34571/boeing-to-shutter-production-of-its-iconic-747-jumbo-jet-after-more-than-50-years-report

https://blog.klm.com/assets/uploads/2015/03/LVFG9256.jpg

And for headbangers of a certain age, the 747 is immortalised in song ... cue the tribute: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq6VhHTYGq0

Danny1969

BA have just grounded their entire fleet of 747's forever. 

Shame, always felt safer on a 747 than anything else .... apparently the 737 Max is coming back at the end of the year .... if that plane has any incidents at all then it will be the end of Boeing I think 

rze99

A few years ago I was travelling all the time and was always happy when it was a 747. I even had the experiences of upper class flight and that knobby stuff it was absolutely brill. I wasn’t paying of course. Mad expensive. And not good value. Just pure indulgence. 

But frankly it’s ancient and my kids have totally changed my outlook on sustainability and the environment - good for them - and this wonderful Old sky bus is outmoded. 

Thanks for memories. 

stickyfiddle

Obviously a monster of a plane and very important historically, but I won't miss them. The 787 and A380 are massively nicer aircraft to spend time as a passenger, and I'll bet the A350 will be even better.

Re the 737-MAX; I will be extremely nervous if I ever have to fly on one, to the point that I'd consider avoiding booking with any airline that's using them.

Danny1969

stickyfiddle said:

Re the 737-MAX; I will be extremely nervous if I ever have to fly on one, to the point that I'd consider avoiding booking with any airline that's using them.

Me too, have to be careful though because although BA have none in their fleet they are in a deal with AA and about 20 737 max's ... so booking BA in the states could put you unknowingly on a 737 as far as I've read

stickyfiddle

Yeah, we're lucky in as much as we use Etihad most of the time as I have good loyalty through work travel and a credit card. They haven't bought any Max-8s yet, and I don't think they have any plans to.

Jalapeno

747, the Concorde killer !

djspecialist

If you're ever in the Seattle area, I would thoroughly recommend taking a tour of the Boeing factory.  Each series (737, 747, ...) is built in a separate hangar (which btw are the most gargantuan spaces you will ever see).  It's fascinating to compare how the construction process has evolved - from a bloke standing on a gantry with a rivet gun bolting together bits of 747, to the fuselage of the Dreamliner being wheeled in as huge, prefabricated sections.

ICBM

It's not dead yet... the last 747 will be flying after the last A380. Admittedly almost all as freighters - but also the two new "Air Force One"s.

The remarkable thing is that even when it was designed, the reason for the 747's famous hump is that the airframes were expected to all be converted to freighters within their intended lifetimes, as supersonic airliners took over the passenger services. Of course that never happened - apart from Concorde, and even that would have failed if the British and French governments hadn't had to save face by bailing it out. The fact that it took more than 50 years for the passenger 747 to fly for the last time - and it still hasn't, there are a few airlines after BA which still have them - is a tribute to just how right the design was.

There are only two contenders for the title of the greatest ever civil aircraft built, and the other one is the Douglas DC-3.

For what it's worth, there's a good reason why Air Force One is a 747, and why the US is replacing the existing ones while they still can - because it has four engines. The problem with only having two is that if one fails, you *must* land at the nearest available airport... which could be extremely inconvenient for a head of state. Personally, I would like to see one or two of these old 747s used as the British equivalent instead of the A330 they've just repainted - or an A340, which are currently being phased out as well.

jdgm

In early 1980 I flew Pan-Am Heathrow to L.A. on a 747 which was called "Maid Of The Seven Seas".  I remember seeing that painted on the front section of the plane. I had a return ticket and I'm fairly sure I flew back on the same plane.

A little over 8 years later I saw the "Maid Of The Seven Seas" again on the TV.

Just the front section, in a field outside Lockerbie.

I've often wondered how many people flew on that aircraft over the years it was in service. Many thousands. 

JezWynd

My dad flew 747s, he loved them, said they were a joy to fly. He started at BOAC flying as navigator in Stratocruisers, before going on to pilot DC7Cs, 707s and DC10s, finishing his big jet career on the 747. He said it was his favourite big jet to fly.

ICBM

jdgm said:

In early 1980 I flew Pan-Am Heathrow to L.A. on a 747 which was called "Maid Of The Seven Seas".  I remember seeing that painted on the front section of the plane. I had a return ticket and I'm fairly sure I flew back on the same plane.

A little over 8 years later I saw the "Maid Of The Seven Seas" again on the TV.

Just the front section, in a field outside Lockerbie.

That must have felt very uncomfortable .

I've been on two aircraft which have suffered accidents, though luckily without loss of life - BA 747 'City Of Leicester', which collided with a building in Johannesburg, and EgyptAir 777 'Nefertiti' which caught fire at Cairo - in both cases many years later, but it still feels odd.

JezWynd said:

My dad flew 747s, he loved them, said they were a joy to fly. He started at BOAC flying as navigator in Stratocruisers, before going on to pilot DC7Cs, 707s and DC10s, finishing his big jet career on the 747. He said it was his favourite big jet to fly.

He's not alone...

Kilgore

My first time on a plane was a 747 from Heathrow to Chicago when I was 13. I was awestruck by the size of it. Both inside and out.

Still remember the film, Arthur with Dudley Moore. Both my parents were smokers, so I had to watch it through a blue haze in the smoking section. 

Kebabkid

It had a jumbo innings

Whitecat

I think Lufthansa is still running 747-8s, no? The only passenger version in the world. I flew on one last year from ORD to FRA. I suppose that may not last though if it continues to be economically unviable. 

ICBM

Whitecat said:

I think Lufthansa is still running 747-8s, no? The only passenger version in the world. I flew on one last year from ORD to FRA. I suppose that may not last though if it continues to be economically unviable. 

It would have to become *very* unviable in the short term for them to give them up - they must have invested a lot in them. If there's any chance of a return to something like normality in the next few years then they'll probably keep them.

Whitecat

ICBM said:

Whitecat said:

I think Lufthansa is still running 747-8s, no? The only passenger version in the world. I flew on one last year from ORD to FRA. I suppose that may not last though if it continues to be economically unviable. 

It would have to become *very* unviable in the short term for them to give them up - they must have invested a lot in them. If there's any chance of a return to something like normality in the next few years then they'll probably keep them.

Indeed... would hope they keep them anyway, they are a joy to see and ride. Also I am correcting my note about them being the only operator - that may have been true a while ago but Korean Air and Air China now have 18 747-8s between them running passenger service as well. The odds are probably on that number not increasing much though worldwide...

ICBM

Whitecat said:

Also I am correcting my note about them being the only operator - that may have been true a while ago but Korean Air and Air China now have 18 747-8s between them running passenger service as well. The odds are probably on that number not increasing much though worldwide...

The odds are zero. Boeing will not make another 747-8i, sadly - even though the 8F is still being made... but even that has a limited future and there probably won't be any more after those already ordered.

The big twins have closed the gap too far, and the A380 has proved that there isn't a long-term market for an even bigger passenger aircraft.

The real question is what will replace the 747 for outsize freight in 20-30 years when the 8Fs retire... there's nothing else with the nose door, apart from the Antonovs and they're all even older.

Axe_meister

ICBM said:

Whitecat said:

Also I am correcting my note about them being the only operator - that may have been true a while ago but Korean Air and Air China now have 18 747-8s between them running passenger service as well. The odds are probably on that number not increasing much though worldwide...

The odds are zero. Boeing will not make another 747-8i, sadly - even though the 8F is still being made... but even that has a limited future and there probably won't be any more after those already ordered.

The big twins have closed the gap too far, and the A380 has proved that there isn't a long-term market for an even bigger passenger aircraft.

The real question is what will replace the 747 for outsize freight in 20-30 years when the 8Fs retire... there's nothing else with the nose door, apart from the Antonovs and they're all even older.

The airbus Guppy

ICBM

Axe_meister said:

The airbus Guppy

I think that’s for Airbus use only and not commercial sale, due to some certification issues.

Maybe they will develop a commercial version.

RandallFlagg

I flew on several of the podgy old BA 747s to and from the US. They used to to creak and groan in the turbulence over the Atlantic.

I'm not sure which old birds looked past their best, the 747's or some of the BA stewardesses!