When is a #11 a b5 ?

JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
edited July 2020 in Theory
is it - that a b5 replaces the ♮5 in a chord or scale, and if it is a #11 the it is as well as ♮5 ? (Ignoring the "upper" tones that is)


Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

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Comments

  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    It really depends on the harmonic context where it is being used.

    For instance, if the chord it is within is a half diminished relating to a tonic key a semi-tone above then it would be unusual to refer to that chord as having a #11.

    If it is a major 7 #11 (ie a Lydian chord) then I wouldn't refer to that as having a b5 even as if you don't play the 5, which you often wouldn't, especially on guitar.
    The 5 is sort of implied.

    So what you are saying is a good rule of thumb but I'm not sure you can say it happens in all cases.
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  • ArchtopDaveArchtopDave Frets: 1367
    Pretty much as @octatonic says. In the same context, there's a Sharp 9 and Minor 3, or a Sharp 5 and Flat 13.
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  • stratcatstratcat Frets: 46
    As octatonic has said the harmonic context trumps all. The fifth of the chord is the easiest to "jazz up" in the chord. The third and the seventh underpin the harmony so anything else is just makes the chord more interesting.
    Ultimately, it all depend on which window you look through.  
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