Learning to target chord tones.

elsmandino

I would be really grateful for some insight as to how other players target chord tones.

This is something that I have only recently been trying to actively do, in an attempt to make my improvisation sound a bit more musical.

I have my own system of doing this but would be grateful for some advice on whether this is a good/bad way of looking at things.

1. I have learnt the major scale in all the CAGED shapes ( I know that there are lots of people that prefer the "3 notes per string" technique but I find CAGED, as a beginner I find CAGED more manageable).

2. For each shape, I have learnt the intervals - for example, if I am in the "C" shape, I can pick out all of the seven sets of intervals.

3. I pick a random backing track - e.g. Am, C, Em, G.

4. I work out that this is all part of the C major scale, thus this is a vi, I, ii, V progression.

5. Over each chord, I try and target the chord position, plus 2 up, plus 2 up - e.g. over the vi chord, I play 6 intervals, plus root intervals, plus 3 intervals.

Is this a good way of looking at things?

The alternative would be to think - this chord is Am, this is made of notes A C E, I need to target these at the moment.  

Any views/tips would be much appreciated.

Brad

For me, learning how to properly target chord tones meant ONLY using chord tones/arpeggios for quite some time. 

I had to reduce the amount of information available to me, so I kind of did away with scales for a while and only used triads within one octave, until I got to the point where the arps (and their inversions) jumped out at me more readily. 

It is really hard trying to make music this way, but the most important thing for me is that the chord tones were really apparent when I was then thinking more in terms of scales or adding other tones to the triads. 

Taking any chord progression, try and play only the triads for each chord. Then target specific notes - the root of each chord or the 3rd etc... See if you can voice lead from one chord to the next (moving as short a distance as possible). 

If you take a look on the technique section, I did a couple of vids about applying triads. It’s with Rhythm Changes and I only used chord tones, but the principles are universal. 

P.s perhaps it’s me, but I’m a little confused about what you mean on point 5. 

HAL9000

I use chord tones a lot in my playing - I think they sound more melodic than the ubiquitous minor pentatonic widdling. If you use major pentatonics (for songs in major keys of course) then a whole heap of chord tones are already there for you. For instance the A major pentatonic consists of A, B, C#, E, & F# so you’ve got all the notes of the A major chord in there, the 3rd and 5th for the D, the root and 5th for the E, all the notes of the F#m, root and 5th for the Bm, and root and 3rd for the C#m. 

I do consciously target the chord tones but will often precede them with, say, the 6th or the 9th so that there’s a tension and resolution there. (Again, the 6ths and 9ths for the major chords are all there in the major pentatonic.) Another thing that works quite nicely is to hit the chord tone on the last beat or half beat of the preceding chord (again tension and release). For instance imagine a two note phrase consisting of just C# and E - hit the C# on the last beat of the D chord and then a sustained E over the following A chord. This also gives ‘harmonic intent’ in that the C# gives the listener a clue as to what’s coming next.

Hope that’s helpful.

GuyBoden

Transcribe solos off your fav records, there's no better way to learn.

elsmandino

Thanks very much for all that - really helpful.

Sorry, my point 5 above was a bit unclear - I use the chord interval of the parent scale to work out what chord tones to target.

For example, if I am playing in the key of C and I have to play over an Am, I know that the Am is the sixth chord so to use the 6th interval.  I then go up through the octave to work out the rest of the triad - two notes up from the 6th interval is the root  and then two up from that is the 3rd.  Am I perhaps over-complicating things?

I think I might try and have a go at only playing chord tones, for a bit, to try and drill them into my head.

Can I just ask - when you are improvising, what are you actually thinking when there is a chord change?

Do you think "this is Am, the triads are A, C, E, I shall target those" or do you automatically know the shapes of all the A C E triads and just rely on those?

Brad

@elsmandino ;

Right I think I get where you’re coming from

If I’ve understood you correctly, I think you may be leading yourself to problems further down the line. 

Whatever you’re using needs to relate to that particular chord you’re playing over. 

If you’re playing over an Am chord but viewing the notes A C E to the chord/key of C then it messes up the intervals and most importantly the sound, in relation to the given chord you’re playing over. 

So over Am - A C E are not the 6th, 1st and 3rd (they are in relation to C though). They are the 1st 3rd and 5th (some folk like to say b3 for certainty). This is really important as your attaching the sound to the interval. Over Am, A is the Root/1st, not the 6th etc. I hope I’ve understood you and that makes sense at your end. 

For me personally it defends on the context. It’s kind of a mixture of everything these days. I’d probably think in terms of intervals (3 5 b9 etc) rather that actual notes, although I know what the notes are still. So I do think it through in real time, targeting specific notes.

 Sometimes I won’t even think, I just know where a given tone is in relation to a chord and how it’s going to sound or if I can’t quite hear something then I’ll at least know something will work, due to having practised it anyway. Sometimes I just play with abandon! 

Danny1969

When given lessons I teach what I call targeting the third.
this just means the pupil writes down the chords and on the  change he targets the third note in the scale of that chord. 

So if it was a change from A minor to D Major for example at the point of the chord  change he will target F# as his landing note. They then learn to target other common notes like the fourth and fifth ... then learn to build little triads 

I learnt this by listening to Dave Gilmore ... it’s easy to learn but amazingly melodic 

HAL9000

elsmandino said:

Can I just ask - when you are improvising, what are you actually thinking when there is a chord change?

Do you think "this is Am, the triads are A, C, E, I shall target those" or do you automatically know the shapes of all the A C E triads and just rely on those?

When there’s a chord change coming up I’ll be thinking about it at least a bar before I get there, Say I’m playing over an A chord and there’s a D chord coming up, then I’d possibly be majoring on notes like F#, G, and A during the last bar of the A. The G (7th) demands resolution and hints that something might be about to happen. The F# is the 6th of A but the 3rd of the D so sort of fits over the A but resolves nicely as the chord changes to D. The A note fits perfectly over both the A and D chords so gives a continuity. So, yes, I am thinking in terms of notes and where I’m likely to go next. Also, I tend to think in terms of triads (and diads) so I usually ‘know’ what I’m targeting.

Roland

Danny1969 said:

When given lessons I teach what I call targeting the third ... So if it was a change from A minor to D Major for example at the point of the chord  change he will target F# as his landing note.

Or even move a beat or so before the chord changes. There a stage I did called Stony Ground with a guitar solo in the middle of the song. The song is in Eb. The guitar blasts in at full volume in E, and one bar later the band comes to meet it.

imalrightjack

I'd highly recommend a lesson with @Brad  ;

AntonHunter

Brad said:

For me, learning how to properly target chord tones meant ONLY using chord tones/arpeggios for quite some time. 

Sound advice this.

An exercise another Brad (Shepik) showed me was to take a chord sequence, start on the lowest chord tone, and then move up to the next available one when the chord changes.

So, for example:

|| Gmaj7 | Em7 | Am7 | D7 || 

you would play...

| G (3rd fret E) | B (2nd fret A) | C (3rd fret A) | D (5th fret A) |

etc. up the scale or neck until you reach the top and then come down in a similar fashion.

Just as an exercise, and when you get comfortable playing one-note per chord, you can try doing two notes per chord...

| G - B - | D - E - | G - A - | C - D - |

...and eventually four...

| G B D F#  | G B D E  | G A C E  | F# A C D | (although you'd run out of neck probably...)


But yeah, what @Brad says basically, limit yourself to just chord tones for a bit.

octatonic

GuyBoden said:

Transcribe solos off your fav records, there's no better way to learn.

This.
It teach you so much more as well, particularly ear training.

Jalapeno

Brad said:

P.s perhaps it’s me, but I’m a little confused about what you mean on point 5. 

No, me too !

elsmandino

Jalapeno said:

Brad said:

P.s perhaps it’s me, but I’m a little confused about what you mean on point 5. 

No, me too !

I think that it is my approach to scales that is a bit confusing.

A couple of my favourite on-line tutorials come from Steve Stine and David Walliman.

Stine seems to favour the approach of always relating diatonic scales back to the parent major scale.

Walliman, however, really advises against this and prefers to learn every scale in its own right.

For example, if you wanted to play something in D Dorian:

Stine would say - play the parent C Major scale but emphasise the D.

Walliman would say - you should know all the Dorian shapes, separately, so just play them in D.

I sort of got drawn into the Stine camp as it seemed less effort - however, perhaps I can see the benefit of the Walliman method, based upon what you have said.

In my example above -

If I need to play Am chord tones, I would have to think 

1. the route of Am is the sixth interval of the C major scale - target the sixth intervals.

2. the third note of the Am triad is two notes up from the sixth interval, which is the 8th (i.e. the root).

3. the final note of the Am triad is two notes up from the root of the parent, which is the third.

Perhaps it is this constantly referring back to the major scale that it is holding me back.

If I saw the Am as its own scale, I would then see the root, third and fifth in their own right (and not go through the mental gymnastics of the above).

Jalapeno

Am is the 6th of C - Ok up to that point.

After that - think / describe Am not Cmaj - (it isn't Dorian mode BTW, it is Aeolian - which is why it's best to avoid modes completely - you're training your ear, not a maths test !)

Trying to relate all the upper tones and accidentals/chromatic notes back to C is too hard - but IT IS good to know where they all fit under your fingers in CAGED shapes - not a small task, but once learned never forgotten.

elsmandino

Jalapeno said:

Am is the 6th of C - Ok up to that point.

After that - think / describe Am not Cmaj - (it isn't Dorian mode BTW, it is Aeolian - which is why it's best to avoid modes completely - you're training your ear, not a maths test !)

Trying to relate all the upper tones and accidentals/chromatic notes back to C is too hard - but IT IS good to know where they all fit under your fingers in CAGED shapes - not a small task, but once learned never forgotten.

Thanks for sticking with me on this, I have clearly been watching so many videos (over Lockdown) that I have overwhelmed myself with information (and sucked a bit of the enjoyment out of my playing, if I am honest).

May I just run one more example by you, please, just so I get the big picture:

Say you are faced with the following chord progression:

Em F Dm C

I know that E Phrygian will fit over the whole thing, so that is the scale to play throughout.

1. I take it that you just know the Phrygian shape all over the neck and you just play away in the key of E?
2. How do you then target the E, B and D over the Em and then the F, A and C over the second chord?  When the Em is being played, are you visualising all the E's B's and D's nearby and emphasising them or something else?

I realise that good players (which I am clearly not) will instinctively know where the triads are - it is trying to find a practice routine, to get me to that point, 

Btw, I have just ordered this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Chord-Tone-Soloing-Musicians-Institute/dp/0634083651/

with the hope that this shall help get me thinking in the correct way.

viz

elsmandino said:

Jalapeno said:

Am is the 6th of C - Ok up to that point.

After that - think / describe Am not Cmaj - (it isn't Dorian mode BTW, it is Aeolian - which is why it's best to avoid modes completely - you're training your ear, not a maths test !)

Trying to relate all the upper tones and accidentals/chromatic notes back to C is too hard - but IT IS good to know where they all fit under your fingers in CAGED shapes - not a small task, but once learned never forgotten.

Thanks for sticking with me on this, I have clearly been watching so many videos (over Lockdown) that I have overwhelmed myself with information (and sucked a bit of the enjoyment out of my playing, if I am honest).

May I just run one more example by you, please, just so I get the big picture:

Say you are faced with the following chord progression:

Em F Dm C

I know that E Phrygian will fit over the whole thing, so that is the scale to play throughout.

1. I take it that you just know the Phrygian shape all over the neck and you just play away in the key of E?
2. How do you then target the E, B and D over the Em and then the F, A and C over the second chord?  When the Em is being played, are you visualising all the E's B's and D's nearby and emphasising them or something else?

I realise that good players (which I am clearly not) will instinctively know where the triads are - it is trying to find a practice routine, to get me to that point, 

Btw, I have just ordered this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Chord-Tone-Soloing-Musicians-Institute/dp/0634083651/

with the hope that this shall help get me thinking in the correct way.

I don’t follow - what have the B and D got to do with it?

elsmandino

Whoops - sorry.

I meant I should have said E, G and B over the Em.

viz

Do you mean the Em triad? E G B?

elsmandino

Sorry - we responded at the same time.  Exactly that.

viz

elsmandino said:

Whoops - sorry.

I meant I should have said E, G and B over the Em.

ah ok right, yes.

Well, reading these and related posts I think there are 3 schools of thought emerging. 

Applied to soloing over your Em F Dm C progression, they are:

1) just noodle in E phryg. The chords will come back round to the tonic (E) at the end of the line, and all your notes will sound harmonious with all the other chords because they’re all “diatonic” to E phryg.  

Pros: can’t go wrong. All notes will work.
Cons: may sound rather E-ish, and miss out on things like suspensions around the chord changes

2) Chord tones method. Know your triads for each chord, and even your extended chords (7ths and 9ths) and snap to the relevant triad as the chord changes. 
Pros: you will help the listener understand the harmonic flow. You will be very aligned to it. 

Cons (IMHO, YMMV): It may sound constructed, ‘pat’, and potentially a bit spiky and clunky unless it’s skillfully done. It is also confusing to beginners, difficult to keep up with at speed, and also misses out on things like suspensions unless you wilfully break the very system you’re trying to adopt. 

3) just whistle tunes that “work” and that you like the sound of. Your brain will make sure the notes fit over the harmonic structure - it’s actually more difficult to whistle a discordant note than a harmonious one. Then put your tune to the guitar or write it down. 
Pros: your tune will flow because you’re thinking of the arc not leaping from chord to chord. 
Cons: none really, except I guess your fingers might come up with something cool that your brain wouldn’t, just through chance or habit.