Do you pinky anchor, yes or no?

viz

wizbit81 said:

I've been through phases. For the first few years no, then when I was trying to pick quicker yes, then no as I went into more strummy metal stuff. When I decided to learn some tough picking stuff to sort my right hand out I tried a lot of positions, and settled on no, just gradually developed a certain hand position for speed picking like in the below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJqz3aXdN2M

What's interesting for me now about watching that video is that you see me just before the fast picking do a quick change of grip and position to get into that perfect shape for me (23 seconds on the vid). It's not my standard hand shape as I get less articulation with it, sounds a bit deader to me when playing normally, so I don't usually use it and whenever I learn something fast I have to work out what that hand position is again and almost re-learn to pick that fast. I'm currently learning something fast for the first time in about 5 years and I'm having to remember my tenets that I had:
1. rigid ok sign, don't let the circle flatten
2. break at the wrist more than normal
3. do not allow finger flexion

Basically, it's not essential, and I don't personally find it helpful anymore. Some of the great pickers do, some don't, guess it's what works for you.

THAT. deserves a wow. 

Barnezy

stratman3142 said:

Barnezy said:

I did but my teacher at the time told me it is ultimately limiting...

He needs to tell ...

Teemu Mantysaari

Guthrie Govan

John Petrucci

Martin Miller

Troy Grady

etc...

Yeah agree. He was a very traditional Spanish guitarist and very particular about good technique. But whats right or wrong really? Hendrix played unathodox, but is regarded as one of the best. 

TBH I'll never get to a level where it would be a limiting factor, so pretty irrelevant 

ToneControl

classical teachers don't like to see it

I do it on acoustics and classical sometimes. I suspect that I've learned to do it to help keep the guitar in position, but I now have another trick to help with that. Now tend to vary.

Certainly it will be affecting the angle at which you are using your right hand, which could be unhelpful from a physio perspective

Also suspect not nice for a guitar with French polish

viz

ToneControl said:

classical teachers don't like to see it

I do it on acoustics and classical sometimes. I suspect that I've learned to do it to help keep the guitar in position, but I now have another trick to help with that. Now tend to vary.

Certainly it will be affecting the angle at which you are using your right hand, which could be unhelpful from a physio perspective

Also suspect not nice for a guitar with French polish

Absolutely - well you can’t with classical or with hybrid picking as you need the pinky to be doing something!

GuyBoden

The pinky was used for picking by Fernando Tor, but it went out of fashion. Look up Five Finger Technique Guitar.
http://www.fergusonguitar.com/aboutc.htm

digitalkettle

GuyBoden said:

The pinky was used for picking by Fernando Tor, but it went out of fashion. Look up Five Finger Technique Guitar.
http://www.fergusonguitar.com/aboutc.htm

A Sor finger, surely?

LastMantra

Depends what I'm playing. I'll sometimes anchor if it helps with a certain part but it's not going to work for everything. 

tattypicker

GuyBoden said:

The pinky was used for picking by Fernando Tor, but it went out of fashion. Look up Five Finger Technique Guitar.
http://www.fergusonguitar.com/aboutc.htm

I don't know anything about Jim Ferguson, or 5 Finger Guitar Technique - but I do have a copy of Fernando Sor's method and he states that he only uses his RH ring finger by necessity - so I doubt he ever used his pinky for plucking.

On the other hand, he does say that he sometimes lightly rests his RH pinky on the sound board as a reference point.

I suspect most modern classical teachers would frown on Sor's use of anchoring on the guitar top, but then plenty of classical players anchor one or other finger on a string - which I think amounts to much the same thing as an electric player using a pickup or the guitar top as a reference point.

digitalkettle

tattypicker said:

I don't know anything about Jim Ferguson, or 5 Finger Guitar Technique - but I do have a copy of Fernando Sor's method and he states that he only uses his RH ring finger by necessity - so I doubt he ever used his pinky for plucking.

On the other hand, he does say that he sometimes lightly rests his RH pinky on the sound board as a reference point.

I suspect most modern classical teachers would frown on Sor's use of anchoring on the guitar top, but then plenty of classical players anchor one or other finger on a string - which I think amounts to much the same thing as an electric player using a pickup or the guitar top as a reference point.

Conact with a classical guitar top will kill some of its resonance.

One of the many differences between electric and classic players is that electric players like to keep the base of their hand on the bridge for muting.

A good point was made regarding that Sor pim thing: if one views the ring finger as weak and neglects it, it's never going to improve!

wizbit81

HAL9000 said:

wizbit81 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJqz3aXdN2M

The burning question, and what everyone who’s watched that clip wants to know, is...


Did you just eat your breakfast straight from the pan? Or was there a plate and cutlery involved along the way?

The public deserves to know.

Haha, it was some super noodles and it was late at night. I lived in New Zealand for a couple of years and was shredding away in the evenings becuse there was absolutely nothing aide from Australian border force on tv.

viz said:

wizbit81 said:

I've been through phases. For the first few years no, then when I was trying to pick quicker yes, then no as I went into more strummy metal stuff. When I decided to learn some tough picking stuff to sort my right hand out I tried a lot of positions, and settled on no, just gradually developed a certain hand position for speed picking like in the below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJqz3aXdN2M

What's interesting for me now about watching that video is that you see me just before the fast picking do a quick change of grip and position to get into that perfect shape for me (23 seconds on the vid). It's not my standard hand shape as I get less articulation with it, sounds a bit deader to me when playing normally, so I don't usually use it and whenever I learn something fast I have to work out what that hand position is again and almost re-learn to pick that fast. I'm currently learning something fast for the first time in about 5 years and I'm having to remember my tenets that I had:
1. rigid ok sign, don't let the circle flatten
2. break at the wrist more than normal
3. do not allow finger flexion

Basically, it's not essential, and I don't personally find it helpful anymore. Some of the great pickers do, some don't, guess it's what works for you.

THAT. deserves a wow. 

Thanks Viz. My right hand used to be my weakest thing so I put some work into Malmsteen, Petrucci, and Pat Martino stuff. Got it sorted in the main. 

Vibetronic said:

I do anchor most of the time...to be honest I don't (or didn't!) think there's a right/wrong way of doing it, but I'm leaning towards thinking not anchoring will (eventually) give you more control/speed/better mechanical action. I'm taking lessons from Martin Goulding at the moment whose method involves not anchoring when picking - it takes a bit of getting used to, but is all based around mechanics, pick angle, how the pick escapes the strings etc - and it makes complete sense. On the other hand I've spent the last 3.5 years working to improve my picking on my own, and have my own technique - including altering plectrum grip/angle - which works really well for me, but there is still the odd glitch, which results in it not sounding quite as super-controlled and precise as his method. It's all really interesting stuff. 

Vibetronic, I had lessons from Martin after studying at the Guitar Institute in the early 00s. Great guy, great sense of humour, and fantastic hard rock/metal stylist. He sorted a lot of my technique out for legato, sweeping, and speed picking. We moved onto what he called 'hyper technique' and once gave me the lovely compliment of saying he thought I could end up turning into a Shawn Lane type figure. Sadly the only thing that happened was I got Shawn Lane's figure, and none of the ability

Matthutch

I've always planted the heel of my hand on the bridge, but recently started lessons online with Bryan Sutton who recommended I don't, to get my forearm off the top of the guitar (acoustic) so it can resonate better. Makes a huge difference. So now I'm learning to use the little and ring fingers trailing down and - very lightly - brushing the top and moving with my hand. Not an anchor at all, just a slight touch. Leaves the arm free to move over a wider arc too.

It's been a bit of a revelation to be honest. Can't imagine it would have the same sonic benefit on an electric, but that freedom of movement, combined with a top free to resonate, makes a big difference to my tone on acoustic.

Vibetronic

wizbit81 said:

Vibetronic, I had lessons from Martin after studying at the Guitar Institute in the early 00s. Great guy, great sense of humour, and fantastic hard rock/metal stylist. He sorted a lot of my technique out for legato, sweeping, and speed picking. We moved onto what he called 'hyper technique' and once gave me the lovely compliment of saying he thought I could end up turning into a Shawn Lane type figure. Sadly the only thing that happened was I got Shawn Lane's figure, and none of the ability

Ah, cool! Yeah, I think he's great; really nice chap and really knows his stuff. Picking aside I'm generally happy with the rest of my playing, but we're going through all the other stuff too and he's spotted stuff I a) didn't know that I did that needed sorting, and b) did know I ought to fix but hadn't. Really good to have some focus like that, and especially in lockdown when my own teaching dried up - stopped me from going mad. Technique aside it's also amazingly useful to pick his brains on teaching itself as he's got so much experience. Did you have him as a teacher at GI as well, or just afterwards? 

uncledick

Nope - never.  I've tried - briefly but just found it so restricting.  It was many years into the guitar playing life that I evidently  also break convention by using 2 fingers and thumb to hold the pick.  I can use a slightly thinner pick (usually a .073) but stiffen it up just by pressing my right thumb.  Haven't dropped pick or broken a string in 50 years so it'll have to do.

TheBigDipper

uncledick said:

Nope - never.  I've tried - briefly but just found it so restricting.  It was many years into the guitar playing life that I evidently  also break convention by using 2 fingers and thumb to hold the pick.  I can use a slightly thinner pick (usually a .073) but stiffen it up just by pressing my right thumb.  Haven't dropped pick or broken a string in 50 years so it'll have to do.

That’s interesting for me, because I hold a pick in the same way and never found anyone else that does.  I can use my grip to change the “stiffness” of the pick by relaxing and tightening up. I think it's a byproduct of starting off as a classical player with a “non anchored” right hand. I just taught myself to use a pick with my hand in a similar place to that and it all stems from there. I find it counterintuitive to have a flat right wrist and use a pick in a standard “music college” way. But I can't play as economically or as fast, either. But I can play some fierce funky rhythm guitar with a loose wrist and grip. :-) 

Slash'N'burn

I had to grab a guitar and see what my little finger does, as I’ve never really noticed.

When I’m using a pick, my little finger is resting on the pick guard, and as I move up to the bass strings, the finger slides upwards eventually resting on the 1st string. So it’s resting on the pickguard, but on the move all the time depending on which strings I’m picking, anyone else do that? 

thecolourbox

I had to look up a video to even see what this means...then had to pick up a guitar to check whether I did or not. I don't.

How do you pick at different places if you have to pivot around your little finger? Like, picking nearer the bridge or neck depending?

stratman3142

TheBigDipper said:

uncledick said:

Nope - never.  I've tried - briefly but just found it so restricting.  It was many years into the guitar playing life that I evidently  also break convention by using 2 fingers and thumb to hold the pick.  I can use a slightly thinner pick (usually a .073) but stiffen it up just by pressing my right thumb.  Haven't dropped pick or broken a string in 50 years so it'll have to do.

That’s interesting for me, because I hold a pick in the same way and never found anyone else that does.  I can use my grip to change the “stiffness” of the pick by relaxing and tightening up. I think it's a byproduct of starting off as a classical player with a “non anchored” right hand. I just taught myself to use a pick with my hand in a similar place to that and it all stems from there. I find it counterintuitive to have a flat right wrist and use a pick in a standard “music college” way. But I can't play as economically or as fast, either. But I can play some fierce funky rhythm guitar with a loose wrist and grip. :-) 

It's not the way I do it, but Steve Morse plays that way and it certainly works for him. Although he does appear to also pinky anchor as well as holding the pick with two fingers and a thumb.

TheBigDipper

stratman3142 said:

TheBigDipper said:

uncledick said:

Nope - never.  I've tried - briefly but just found it so restricting.  It was many years into the guitar playing life that I evidently  also break convention by using 2 fingers and thumb to hold the pick.  I can use a slightly thinner pick (usually a .073) but stiffen it up just by pressing my right thumb.  Haven't dropped pick or broken a string in 50 years so it'll have to do.

That’s interesting for me, because I hold a pick in the same way and never found anyone else that does.  I can use my grip to change the “stiffness” of the pick by relaxing and tightening up. I think it's a byproduct of starting off as a classical player with a “non anchored” right hand. I just taught myself to use a pick with my hand in a similar place to that and it all stems from there. I find it counterintuitive to have a flat right wrist and use a pick in a standard “music college” way. But I can't play as economically or as fast, either. But I can play some fierce funky rhythm guitar with a loose wrist and grip. :-) 

It's not the way I do it, but Steve Morse plays that way and it certainly works for him. Although he does appear to also pinky anchor as well as holding the pick with two fingers and a thumb.

I'd settle for his technique on an electric... 

clarkefan

Skiers abandoned regimented rules a long time ago.

In a vid recently Jennifer Batton recalled her student days in GIT or whatever where she was required to plant her thumb at the back of the neck to play jazz stuff properly, and she struggled with this until she saw George Benson live, and his thumb was well up over the neck and she thought, screw this, no rules, whatever works.

thomasross20

I got the steroid injection yesterday. Doesn't feel any different. Will give it a week...