MIM Jazz Bass Query (buying used, some advice)

thegummy

Creed_Clicks said:

A lot of the online vids I checked, there´s not much difference between the neck pickup on a J and a P bass. Feel would be different I guess.
I do like the smaller p bass style body on the G&L JB2 so that tribute could be runner, I'd replace pickups then.
Still hard to know though! It'll be while either way. Tempted to get rid of my Gibson SG bass to fund....

Do you mean there's not much difference between the P pickup on a PJ vs on just a normal P?

Or are you comparing a normal Jazz bass with 2 J pickups?

I read on forums people saying that the J neck pickup sounds like a P which made me choose a J as my first bass.

Didn't take me long to find out that they sound totally different to each other.

Funkfingers

thegummy said:

Do you mean there's not much difference between the P pickup on a PJ vs on just a normal P?

The P pickup will be exactly the same in either circuit.

IMO, where the PJ pairing usually falls down is because the J pickup is not calibrated to give equal output to the P pickup.

thegummy said:

I read on forums people saying that the J neck pickup sounds like a P which made me choose a J as my first bass.

I can think of only one instance when this can be true. The P and short J models in the old Seymour Duncan Active EQ series bass pickups have identical innards under different plastic covers. 

thegummy said:

Been wondering if Ric players commonly use the bridge pickup only and that's the sound intended.

The “bridge” pickup in a RIC 4000, 4001 or 4003 supplies the clank. The neck pickup brings a deeper, plummy component. (THINK: Macca on Come Together or Graham Gouldman in the middle section of I’m Not In Love.) It is the combination of the two that makes the sound.

The RIC neck position pickup is much closer to the end of the fingerboard than its equivalent on any Fender except the Coronado Bass or the mk2 Telecaster Bass. Thus, even an OCP Overkill in the neck position of a Jazz Bass would not sound the same.

althy

Hi, sorry if i'm hijacking the thread.. I am wondering what the differences are between the overkill and a quan badass bridge? 
is there any particular reasons to go for one over the other? I am playing pick mainly for 90's alternative rock

Funkfingers

You have misconstrued. Some contributors have been expressing themselves using shortened/jargon terms.

The Oil City Pickups Overkill is an R-style pickup, designed to fit in the “bridge” position pickup cavity of a Jazz or PJ Bass.

althy

haha sounds like me! Now I see, thanks
If anyone has had experience with them, what would a badass bridge change/ improve on a JB? Is it mainly the resonance? are intonation height more fine tune-able?
cheers

Funkfingers

The greater mass of a machined from solid bridge could help to improve the balance when worn on a strap.

The main idea is increase sustain. Sometimes, this happens at the expense of tone. More than once, I have changed the basic, bent steel bridge on a Fender style bass only to eventually revert to stock because it sounded better.

The BadAss has the advantage that its saddles can not be pulled out of alignment by vigorous playing.

I have found the current Fender Hi Mass (BadAss lookalike) bridge a mixed blessing. It sounds fine on an Am Std Dimension Bass. It detracted from the sound when I tried it on Squier VM series instruments. 

I am rarely disappointed by the Gotoh 201B and Schaller 3-D-4.

althy

thanks a lot for all these details

thegummy

Funkfingers said:

The “bridge” pickup in a RIC 4000, 4001 or 4003 supplies the clank. The neck pickup brings a deeper, plummy component. (THINK: Macca on Come Together or Graham Gouldman in the middle section of I’m Not In Love.) It is the combination of the two that makes the sound.

The RIC neck position pickup is much closer to the end of the fingerboard than its equivalent on any Fender except the Coronado Bass or the mk2 Telecaster Bass. Thus, even an OCP Overkill in the neck position of a Jazz Bass would not sound the same.

So the Overkill can only really be its own thing, inspired by the Ric sound, not a way to even approximate it?

Funkfingers

The best person to explain how the Overkill pickup is constructed and how to set it up to approximate the sound of an R-type bass guitar is Ash at @OilCityPickups. Until he can post something, this old thread might help. https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/136148/oil-city-a-very-special-51-p-bass-pickup#latest

IMO, the pickup is only one factor in the overall sound of an electric bass guitar. Part of what distinguishes a RIC 4000-series bass is its construction method and materials. No screwed-on neck bass quite matches it, even when played using the exact same technique.

Given that, circa Moving Pictures, Rush fans would write to Geddy Lee to compliment the recorded sound of his Rickenbacker bass when several of the songs were actually his (then) recently acquired Fender Jazz Bass, a Jazz Bass is probably the best place to start when attempting to mimic RIC sounds from a non-RIC instrument.

My own choice for such an experiment would be a PJ bass. I would want the fuller tone of a P pickup to combine with the Overkill clank. That's just me. You have to do what is right for you.



Back on topic.

Creed_Clicks said:

could anyone confirm if the pickups would be standard size

Judging by the still image, the way that the strings pass relative to the polepieces indicates that pickups in the G&L Tribute JB-2 are equal length. Choose replacements by measuring the pickup covers. EMG makes an equal length pair.

If buying a G&L bass guitar, my inclination would be to choose a model with their dual coil pickups and mode switching. One pickup might be enough.

Creed_Clicks

Still undecided about a p or J. Not sure why I am fixed on a 70s J over a 60 spec. I doubt I'd hear the difference...

4string

thegummy said:

4string said:

@Creed_Clicks if you fancy the Overkill in the bridge, let's talk about what we can do for the neck as well. :-) 

That's something I've been wondering about since the Overkill peaked my interest.

Been wondering if Ric players commonly use the bridge pickup only and that's the sound intended.

If not, I'm puzzled about there not being a neck version.

Personally, I use both pickups at the same time for 90% of what I play. Occasionally, where the song demands it, I will just use the bridge only. I do roll off the bass, have level mids and boost a little the treble on my amp. Just for reference. 

Funkfingers

By itself, the bridge pickup on a RIC 4001 or 4003 is short on low end. I rarely use it for clean sounds except when doubling a recorded part. Distortion sounds are where this pickup comes into its own.

I occasionally wonder whether a balance pot to blend the two pickups would be a wise move. (This would only apply to mono versions of the instrument.)

thegummy

4string said:

thegummy said:

4string said:

@Creed_Clicks if you fancy the Overkill in the bridge, let's talk about what we can do for the neck as well. :-) 

That's something I've been wondering about since the Overkill peaked my interest.

Been wondering if Ric players commonly use the bridge pickup only and that's the sound intended.

If not, I'm puzzled about there not being a neck version.

Personally, I use both pickups at the same time for 90% of what I play. Occasionally, where the song demands it, I will just use the bridge only. I do roll off the bass, have level mids and boost a little the treble on my amp. Just for reference. 

I take it you mean on an actual Ric?

How does that work with your Overkill then, what neck pickup would you use with it - a normal J neck?

Or is the Overkill just its own thing inspired by Ric but not meant to actually give the sound of one?

4string

thegummy said:

4string said:

thegummy said:

4string said:

@Creed_Clicks if you fancy the Overkill in the bridge, let's talk about what we can do for the neck as well. :-) 

That's something I've been wondering about since the Overkill peaked my interest.

Been wondering if Ric players commonly use the bridge pickup only and that's the sound intended.

If not, I'm puzzled about there not being a neck version.

Personally, I use both pickups at the same time for 90% of what I play. Occasionally, where the song demands it, I will just use the bridge only. I do roll off the bass, have level mids and boost a little the treble on my amp. Just for reference. 

I take it you mean on an actual Ric?

How does that work with your Overkill then, what neck pickup would you use with it - a normal J neck?

Or is the Overkill just its own thing inspired by Ric but not meant to actually give the sound of one?

@thegummy  ;Yes, actual Ric :-)

The Overkill is slightly under-wound compared to a Ric pickup as Ash designed it to work in the bridge position of a Jazz (there is a good diagram of the relative position of pickups on bass guitars that shows the Ric bridge rout is some distance from the Jazz bridge rout, so he compensated in the design), while retaining the J neck pickup. To my ear it is a pretty convincing Ric-a-like sound. This should not be a surprise, given @Funkfingers comments about the difficulty fans had spotting the difference between Geddy Lee's Jazz and Ric sound. 

You can add an Overkill to the bridge as well. Again very much sonically in Ric territory.  

There are other things you can do with the Overkill as well. We have a customer in the USA who has put an Overkill in a custom bass with an active pre-amp. Ric all the way, but more so, is his view. He is comparing it to one of the new 5 string active Rics - sadly our budget does not extend to a company 5 string Ric to do the comparison ourselves...

We will be exploring the Overkill/pre-amp combination ourselves in the next few months. The same customer has asked for a humbucking Overkill for a new custom bass, which we will build before the end of the year. This will also play through an active pre-amp. It will be just a little higher resistance than the original Stingray humbucker design. We can only guess what THAT is going to sound like. :-) 

   

Funkfingers

I quite fancied the idea of a custom double coil Jazz/Overkill pickup to go in my Warwick Streamer Pro M. (The stock MEC double J pickup is crap. I have an EMG35-J in there at present.)

It might be worth involving @ICBM and @prowla in this Discussion to get some opinions of what constitutes a RIC bass sound.

It remains my opinion that the combination of either a P or a Mudbucker and an Overkill has the best chance of recreating the overall effect. If/when I remove the EMG-GZR pickups from my Squier VM PJ Bass, I would like to put my theory to the test.

Re: The Geddy Lee RIC > Fender transition, some people listen with their eyes. Even the Moving Pictures inner sleeve photograph of Lee holding his black Jazz Bass did not get the message across to some listeners.


@4string How practical would it be to adapt the Overkill to fit the split coils Precision Bass pickup format? Maybe, with its coils connected in the Seymour Duncan “Power Boost” fashion to behave like a single coil.

thegummy

4string said:

thegummy said:

4string said:

thegummy said:

4string said:

@Creed_Clicks if you fancy the Overkill in the bridge, let's talk about what we can do for the neck as well. :-) 

That's something I've been wondering about since the Overkill peaked my interest.

Been wondering if Ric players commonly use the bridge pickup only and that's the sound intended.

If not, I'm puzzled about there not being a neck version.

Personally, I use both pickups at the same time for 90% of what I play. Occasionally, where the song demands it, I will just use the bridge only. I do roll off the bass, have level mids and boost a little the treble on my amp. Just for reference. 

I take it you mean on an actual Ric?

How does that work with your Overkill then, what neck pickup would you use with it - a normal J neck?

Or is the Overkill just its own thing inspired by Ric but not meant to actually give the sound of one?

@thegummy  ;Yes, actual Ric :-)

The Overkill is slightly under-wound compared to a Ric pickup as Ash designed it to work in the bridge position of a Jazz (there is a good diagram of the relative position of pickups on bass guitars that shows the Ric bridge rout is some distance from the Jazz bridge rout, so he compensated in the design), while retaining the J neck pickup. To my ear it is a pretty convincing Ric-a-like sound. This should not be a surprise, given @Funkfingers comments about the difficulty fans had spotting the difference between Geddy Lee's Jazz and Ric sound. 

You can add an Overkill to the bridge as well. Again very much sonically in Ric territory.  

There are other things you can do with the Overkill as well. We have a customer in the USA who has put an Overkill in a custom bass with an active pre-amp. Ric all the way, but more so, is his view. He is comparing it to one of the new 5 string active Rics - sadly our budget does not extend to a company 5 string Ric to do the comparison ourselves...

We will be exploring the Overkill/pre-amp combination ourselves in the next few months. The same customer has asked for a humbucking Overkill for a new custom bass, which we will build before the end of the year. This will also play through an active pre-amp. It will be just a little higher resistance than the original Stingray humbucker design. We can only guess what THAT is going to sound like. :-) 

   

Much appreciated cheers

thegummy

Funkfingers said:

I quite fancied the idea of a custom double coil Jazz/Overkill pickup to go in my Warwick Streamer Pro M. (The stock MEC double J pickup is crap. I have an EMG35-J in there at present.)

It might be worth involving @ICBM and @prowla in this Discussion to get some opinions of what constitutes a RIC bass sound.

It remains my opinion that the combination of either a P or a Mudbucker and an Overkill has the best chance of recreating the overall effect. If/when I remove the EMG-GZR pickups from my Squier VM PJ Bass, I would like to put my theory to the test.

Re: The Geddy Lee RIC > Fender transition, some people listen with their eyes. Even the Moving Pictures inner sleeve photograph of Lee holding his black Jazz Bass did not get the message across to some listeners.


@4string How practical would it be to adapt the Overkill to fit the split coils Precision Bass pickup format? Maybe, with its coils connected in the Seymour Duncan “Power Boost” fashion to behave like a single coil.

I've had the thought that if I ever get another Jazz bass I'd possibly convert my current one to have an Overkill in the bridge and a SCPB in the middle - seems like that would give some cool options.

Creed_Clicks

An Overkill in the middle and bridge position of a J bass !
What about a p bass body with a Ric Laredo/Cheyenne style pickups in the Ric position ...

4string

Funkfingers said:

I quite fancied the idea of a custom double coil Jazz/Overkill pickup to go in my Warwick Streamer Pro M. (The stock MEC double J pickup is crap. I have an EMG35-J in there at present.)

....

@4string How practical would it be to adapt the Overkill to fit the split coils Precision Bass pickup format? Maybe, with its coils connected in the Seymour Duncan “Power Boost” fashion to behave like a single coil.

Talk to use toward the end of the year and someone else might have paid for the R&D :-)

Overkill as a P bass pick up is a P Bass pickup, surely. In series... Seems like to would be different just to fit an existing rout. More interesting might be the neo magnet P bass proto type that will get built when we have sometime. It will be going in a knackered old p bass partscaster and I expect it to kick the front end of my amp nice and hard.

If we are playing fantasy pick up combos - Over kill | neo p bass | Overkill - sort of Stu Hamm ish with 57 ways switching. Strings not likely to sustain much in the mag field... :-)
  

looebloke

i have recently picked up a Bass Collection Rhythm stick (PJ -alike) and replaced the J pickup with an Overkill   - no Ric to compare it with but i have a variax bass with the Ric emulation and it gets pretty damn close to that ( need to dial in a bit of the P pickuip because the OC on its own is waay bright (to do with it being nearer the bridge than a Ric pickup would be on a Ric????)