How much does weight relief affect the sound of a Les Paul?

SteveRobinson

I'm planning a Les Paul (ish) build for myself. 

I'd like it to be as light as possible, but no lighter. I.e. remove just enough wood to reduce the weight but not so much that it doesn't sound as good as it could. 

I'd rather have a heavier guitar than one that doesn't sound right. 

WezV

depends on the style in my opinion.

Weight relief holes don't change the tone too much, but also don't remove a lot of weight.   You get about 1oz per 1" hole.   So gibson 9-hole weight relief gives you just over 1/2lb 

Chambers affect the tone more, and are better at removing weight.

i aim for a body that is about 5lb or under at this stage... this one took extra drilling to get it there from a 9.8lb rectangular blank, or 6.4lb once cut out

Danielsguitars

I did a semi chambered Les Paul, I took out mostly from the bass side, enough to get the body weight down, it weighs 7.8lb and losses nothing imo, I used p90s in it

Obviously it's going to sound slightly different to a full body, there's no right or wrong either

I got my mahogany blank down to 4lb without the cap and stopped because I wanted to keep some mass

SteveRobinson

The other alternative I suppose is to make a thinner body. Or both thinner and weight relieved.

Even without weight relief my 45mm blank might be okay as its density is around 500kg/m³

WezV

Is there a weight you are aiming for?     

Its easier to calculate weight reduction when making it thinner.

SteveRobinson

Eight pounds including a B7 would be nice.

I'll weigh everything and see how much wood I have to remove.

FelineGuitars

I favour a slightly thinner body with some weight relief

SteveRobinson

Right, I've weighed everything and it comes out about 10 pounds unfortunately. I *could* live with that I suppose.

My top isn't carved yet so I estimated a couple of pounds for that which may well be on the pessimistic side?

I calculated the volume of my body (excluding control cavity but including pickup routes) and multiplied by the density of the wood.

Maple		2
Mahogany		4.455
Neck & rod		1.1
Fretboard		0.33
Tuners		0.44
Pickups		0.55
Electrics & bridge		0.33
Bigsby		0.77
TOTAL		9.975

I could shave half a pound by reducing the mahogany depth from 45 to 40cm but it looks like I'm going to have to chamber it in order to get anywhere near my target weight.

WezV

yeah, 8lb will need drastic weight reduction, but you can do it in stages and see where you are at as you go... add some swiss cheese holes in your chamber area before adding full chambers... it makes the routing easier, and you may find its enough


edit: i just weighed a custom style i am making with a full chamber similar to the green line on the blank above, except it stops behind the bridge before the control cavity. it was a heavier blank at the start.  Ready for buffing with no parts, its coming in at 6lb 10oz... should be 8lb or under all in (no bigsby).   I think the body slab was about 4lb on this one before it had its top

SteveRobinson

WezV said:

yeah, 8lb will need drastic weight reduction, but you can do it in stages and see where you are at as you go... add some swiss cheese holes in your chamber area before adding full chambers... it makes the routing easier, and you may find its enough

Yes that's what I'll do thanks

GSPBASSES

 

I've been doing weight relief on LP’s for the best part the 30 years. I don't believe it makes any difference to the sound or sustain, the only real difference it makes, you don't end up with a damaged shoulder or back ache after a gig. The typical comment I get from customers when they pick up one of my Les Pauls “how to get a Les Paul this light and sound so good”. I’m now starting to chamber LPJ single cuts.

 I will also have a test with a LPJ DC next, this is more to do with the difficulty of obtaining light weight Mahogany now at a sensible price. 

This is the typical chambering I do on a LP. The mahogany part of the body is also much thinner then a typical Gibson body, this also helps to keep the weight down. The cross body wire run is also much deeper then it needs to be, again just to keep the weight down.

camf

I think if I could lose a few pounds, I’d look cooler when I’m playing one.

ICBM

[Warning: heresy alert]

In my opinion a properly-done weight-relieved body made from denser wood will probably sound better than a solid one made from lighter wood, up to a point.

[/heresy]

That’s been my experience anyway. I really don’t like overly-light wood in a Les Paul, it makes them sound and feel insubstantial in my opinion. Denser wood just ‘rings’ more, even with a bit of weight relief.

I think the key is to keep the holes small and fill the available area with them, rather than a single large chamber which starts to have acoustic resonance. That’s why ‘Swiss cheese’ weight relief still sounds like a Les Paul, but the fully-chambered ones sound a bit more like a 335.

WezV

ICBM said:

I think the key is to keep the holes small and fill the available area with them, rather than a single large chamber which starts to have acoustic resonance. That’s why ‘Swiss cheese’ weight relief still sounds like a Les Paul, but the fully-chambered ones sound a bit more like a 335.

I tend to think of it in terms of stiffness.    You can make a lot of smaller holes without affecting stiffness at all.   start making big ones and the stiffness is changed 

same principle as weight reduction in Steel I-beams   you can punch a lot of holes in the middle section before any significant stiffness is lost

ICBM

WezV said:

I tend to think of it in terms of stiffness.    You can make a lot of smaller holes without affecting stiffness at all.   start making big ones and the stiffness is changed 

same principle as weight reduction in Steel I-beams   you can punch a lot of holes in the middle section before any significant stiffness is lost

Yes, I think you're right.

Also the honeycomb composites used in aircraft manufacture for the maximum possible stiffness to weight ratio.

PCG

I had always thought my 1998 standard was non-weight relieved as it has a single piece mahogany back and weighs 10 1/2 pounds.  However, I recently read that Gibson has been using weight relief in some form or another since the late 80s. I guess mine has the "Swiss cheese" weight relief, with the 9 smaller holes.  I wonder how much weight that actually saved?  In any case, the guitar sounds great (had it from new, will never sell it).