Rivera era Fender Concert amps - any experience?

Aidanspaghetti

Hi all,
One for sale local to me for a good price - read a little bit about them online but any first hand experience with them?!

Kebabkid

I had the head. It's bloody loud and bloody heavy.
The sound(s) we're nothing to write home about and for me, I'd take a DRRI over it any day.

Aidanspaghetti

Well thats that then! Thanks

Kebabkid

Handwired, good build quality but I found the clean sound average but took pedals ok. The lead sound was thin but that's one opinion and I bought it on the strength of better reviews than mine.

Just one opinion but that's my experience.

Go try it and I paid £400 for mine. Combos were about £100 more but this was 10 yrs ago.

ICBM

I had one - the 1x12" combo - and I've worked on several more. They're extremely well-made, probably the best-built amps ever made by Fender - but very heavy. The clean sound is excellent, but if you like the softer 'bounce' of a Deluxe Reverb you may find it too stiff - it's most like a bolder, tighter Twin Reverb. They have a very effective FX loop with full level matching, and the usual great Fender reverb.

The overdrive channel as stock is poor, but there's a very simple mod for it which transforms it out of all recognition - you need to move the tone stack from before the distortion (Fender/Boogie type) to after the distortion (Marshall/Rectifier type)... this gives a much thicker distortion with more effective EQ and substantially more gain (since the insertion loss is then after the distortion rather than before), and can be done with only the components and wire inside the amp already.

They do have one small reliability fault - the 47-ohm bias feed resistor is undersized and often burns out, which will leave the power valves with no bias and usually kill them too unless you turn off immediately. To fix it you just need to replace the 1/2W carbon resistor with a 1W or 2W wirewound one and it will never fail again.

If you're going to buy one and you want to use the channel switching, make sure it comes with the footswitch - they're complex, originals are very rare, and expensive to either buy or even have a substitute made.

And unlike kebabkid, I would take either a Concert or the lighter (but with no FX loop unfortunately) Deluxe Reverb II over any Deluxe Reverb, old or new...

Kebabkid

ICBM said:

I had one - the 1x12" combo - and I've worked on several more. They're extremely well-made, probably the best-built amps ever made by Fender - but very heavy. The clean sound is excellent, but if you like the softer 'bounce' of a Deluxe Reverb you may find it too stiff - it's most like a bolder, tighter Twin Reverb. They have a very effective FX loop with full level matching, and the usual great Fender reverb.

The overdrive channel as stock is poor, but there's a very simple mod for it which transforms it out of all recognition - you need to move the tone stack from before the distortion (Fender/Boogie type) to after the distortion (Marshall/Rectifier type)... this gives a much thicker distortion with more effective EQ and substantially more gain (since the insertion loss is then after the distortion rather than before), and can be done with only the components and wire inside the amp already.

They do have one small reliability fault - the 47-ohm bias feed resistor is undersized and often burns out, which will leave the power valves with no bias and usually kill them too unless you turn off immediately. To fix it you just need to replace the 1/2W carbon resistor with a 1W or 2W wirewound one and it will never fail again.

If you're going to buy one and you want to use the channel switching, make sure it comes with the footswitch - they're complex, originals are very rare, and expensive to either buy or even have a substitute made.

And unlike kebabkid, I would take either a Concert or the lighter (but with no FX loop unfortunately) Deluxe Reverb II over any Deluxe Reverb, old or new...

Edit: Apologies @Aidanspaghetti if I came over 'closed' in my earlier email but it's just that I read various things, mainly good, about this amp and it disappointed me. I thought I was going to get a classic Fender clean and sparkly clean tone and a Larry Carlton-ish smooth lead tone with good sustain. That didn't happen for me and it was stock.

Yep, quite a bit of what ICBM says rings true for me and I found the clean channel stiff and a little darker and harder sounding in comparison to DRRI and Super Reverb or Princeton amps. It's maybe closer to a Twin but not as lively and I know from past posts, we have different likes when it comes to amp sounds. Those that know me here and have heard my amps at GearFests etc (Divided, DRRI, Mesa, H&K) will know that I like a dynamic, crystalline clean sound that acts as a very good pedal platform and so external EQ or judicious use of the onboard EQ and/or a brighter guitar might suit it better but it depends what you like.

The weight really is a consideration but if you're ok with a Twin or Boogie, fair play.

Further down, there are mentions of mods and so my opinion is based on something stock, so maybe it does have more possibilities to improve it but that can be said about quite a few Fenders.

I have heard better things about the Deluxe II but I've never tried one.

As an aside, if you're interested in Point to Point Fender amps, preceeding the the Rivera-era ones was the Fender 75 designed by Ed Jahns. That had a superb Fender clean sound and a decent overdrive and like the claims made about the Super Champ, this was also meant to be Fender's take on a Mesa. Some came with 15" speakers and I heard a pair of these being used most weekends for about 10 years by a session band that I used to watch in the mid-80s (Jamie Moses and Larry Oliver for those familiar with these two around Surrey). Apart from some modulation/delay fx and occasionally, an early Roland GR Synth unit (yellow one), all the sounds including dirt came from these and they always sounded excellent.

As I said, you can only go try it and see if it suits, especially if it's a good price

Modulus_Amps

I like them, not the drive channel, but for a clean platform they are nice. There is a cap at the input that really rolls off harsh high end that you get in some other Fenders.

ICBM

Modulus_Amps said:

I like them, not the drive channel, but for a clean platform they are nice.

I really couldn't believe how effective the tone stack move was - it transformed the drive channel from a scratchy, overly-touchy effort with little real dirt until the gain controls were right up, into a very usable, powerful drive channel that just naturally sounded great - for no cost if you can do it yourself. It doesn't make it sound like a Marshall... but why would you want to, it's a Fender!

It's one of the few amps I've owned that I regret selling - although I don't miss the weight. But I miss my four (yes really... three at the same time, once - they were not too expensive in those days) Super Champs more.

nickaslin

Think I was just looking at the same one and wondering the same thing!

danishbacon

@ICBM any idea how they compare to the Princeton Reverb II?

ICBM

danishbacon said:

@ICBM any idea how they compare to the Princeton Reverb II?

Much bigger-sounding and more flexible overdriven - even with the stock drive channel. The PRII suffers from the same problem as the Super Champ in that the drive mode is derived from the reverb circuit rather than a separate channel, so it’s a bit of a lash-up really - shared EQ and kills the reverb level, so I found it impossible to get both sounds good at the same time, you end up compromising the clean sound too much to stop the drive sounding poor.

Ironically this is basically the same as the much-hated Pull Distortion mode on the silverface Twin, although it doesn’t sound as bad...

The PRII is smaller and a lot lighter than the Concert though, and amazingly loud for its 20W, so if you just want a clean sound then it’s a good choice. For what it’s worth I’ve modded a couple of them (and two of my own Super Champs) so the Lead mode is more of a pure volume boost, which I found much more useful.

I just didn’t like the PRII as much as the other two - it’s not the tiny wonder that the Super Champ is, nor as big-sounding as the Concert - I found it too middy overall and a bit shouty. I sold mine to the other guitarist in my band, which is why I then had to get the Concert just so I could hear myself . (I use completely clean sounds, he doesn’t.)

veldt666

I agree with everything ICBM said,(Although I like and use the distortion channel).
I had  2 X Concerts fitted with EVM 12Ls, running in Stereo, 83 - 2001.
Well made, and a stunning sound.
 I did sell them on, but kept and still use, 2 X Super Champs, (One in a head shell + a Mongotone 1 X 12 Cab. ( Massive sound).
The Other is fitted with an EV10 as stock,
I also use the Princeton 2, ( slightly Modded), Eminence Cannabis Rex speaker.
and 2 X Twin 2 Combo’s,( Again Modded), & fitted with Celestion Sidewinders.
IMHO, the best amps Fender ever made, Just tweak to taste.

Dodge

I've had my fair share of Rivera-era amps (Superchamp, Champ II, 2 x PRII, DRII and a Concert) - they've all been fun in their own particular way, but none of them have stayed with me.

I didn't really like the Rivera overdrive sound, although I didn't mod any of mine.  The DRII was probably my favourite, as it didn't have shared EQ like the PRII, which made the drive sounds tolerable.

Superbly built though, as previously said.

Aidanspaghetti

OPk thanks for the updates guys! Food for thought for sure - Its relatively cheap (There are more expensive pedals out there!) and its flightcased too. Weight isn't an issue as my main is a Matchless and this will be going in stereo with it
Sounds promising post mods....

ICBM

Aidanspaghetti said:

Food for thought for sure - Its relatively cheap (There are more expensive pedals out there!) and its flightcased too.

Assuming you're not talking about some stupid horsey overdrive, that really must be cheap...!

If you do get it, check the 47-ohm bias feed resistor first - if it hasn't already failed and been replaced (almost all will have by now), or if it has and the tech has used another 1/2W resistor (of any type), replace it straight away with a 1W or bigger, preferably wirewound - then you'll never waste a pair of power valves when it inevitably cooks itself later .

koneguitarist

Never played any Rivera amp I liked. The fender concert, Deluxe, Princeton and champ, all sounded very hard to me. Maybe they sound better with Gibson’s.

Kebabkid

There's a DRII at Andertons (£999)

dcg

FWIW, I think the Concert is an underrated amplifier, with tank-like construction and excellent cleans; none of the Rivera-era amps IMO have viable drive sounds for the modern player, but the solidity of the Concert's clean channel allows a simple drive pedal the opportunity to make the amp sing.  The Rivera Super Champ is a wonderful amp, properly used; the Princeton ll is a cult in and of itself, although I haven't played one.  And there are plenty of mods out there for those of us who live to tweak.
The weight of the Concert is an issue, I would agree; perhaps the head is then the better option, as you mitigate some of the weight issues and allow your own choice of speaker.
BTW...I have owned two hand wired silverface Deluxe Reverbs and - gasp - have not regretted selling either.  Many will disagree, but the classic Fender clean sound (for me) starts with the Pro Reverb (very underrated) and the Twin...but you would not be disappointed with the Concert for cleans.  And they shouldn't cost too much either...

normula1

I remember a friend having one years ago and me really liking it.

Stuckfast

Well I've just come home with one of these... it was that or a Bassman Ten, but I wasn't convinced the Bassman was quite working as well as it should.

I'm interested in this mod, where can I find the details?

ICBM

Stuckfast said:

I'm interested in this mod, where can I find the details?

You need to swap the entire lead channel tone stack (from V1 pins 1/6 to the input of the channel volume control) with the .01uF cap immediately before the master volume. The new tone stack position needs to be connected to V4A pin 1 and not to the junction of the 22K and 82K resistors. I don’t have step-by-step instructions unfortunately, but it was very straightforward and can be accomplished with only the parts and wire already in the amp.

https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/schematics/Fender/Fender-Concert-II-83-Schematic.pdf