Is there charts like mic polar pattern charts but for speaker cabs?

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Is there an equivalent to this kind of thing:

https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/shure-blog-images/uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/beta58-polar-plot.png

Drummer is suffering from some low end build up from the guitar cabs despite volume of the guitars being pretty low (using in-ears so doesnt need to be too loud). I feel like this could be solved by positioning the cabs but a quick google didnt throw up what I needed. 

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  • Where in the room is the drummer? Where in the room are the guitar cabs?

    It is down to acoustics: when placing a speaker next to a hard surface, eg. the floor, you get a 6dB boost in the bass, because bass eminates in all directions but as it cannot go through the floor it bounces back, doubling the volume of the bass. Treble frequencies are directional so will travel in the direction the speaker is facing.

    Place a speaker next to the floor and a wall, you get a 12dB boost in the bass. Place the speaker in a corner, that is, next to the floor and two walls and you get an 18dB boost in the bass.

    Putting the speaker on a stand or chair away from walls help not overly accentuate the bass.

    All rooms have modal activity and bass builds up in corners. Don't let the drummer sit in a corner.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 5554
    edited September 15
    Whistler said:
    Where in the room is the drummer? Where in the room are the guitar cabs?

    It is down to acoustics: when placing a speaker next to a hard surface, eg. the floor, you get a 6dB boost in the bass, because bass eminates in all directions but as it cannot go through the floor it bounces back, doubling the volume of the bass. Treble frequencies are directional so will travel in the direction the speaker is facing.

    Place a speaker next to the floor and a wall, you get a 12dB boost in the bass. Place the speaker in a corner, that is, next to the floor and two walls and you get an 18dB boost in the bass.

    Putting the speaker on a stand or chair away from walls help not overly accentuate the bass.

    All rooms have modal activity and bass builds up in corners. Don't let the drummer sit in a corner.
    https://imgur.com/a/b3rEudB

    https://i.imgur.com/xr1OySX.png

    So my first thought way to setup with the drums firing down the room but the drummer insists his bass drum sounds better with the reflection from the back wall *sigh*.

    Due to covid we have 6 boxes we can use so limited to how we can rearrange.

    I did try angling the cabs a way from him but this seems to be worse, I think because then he's only getting bass and non of the rest of the signal bouncing off the wall coming back to him.

    Problem is worse for my amp G2 because it has such tasty low end (I might have to dial out some of the thump but then whats the point of having the diezel) but there's some build up from both. 

    I wondered about putting the cabs on the other wall facing towards him, so it might be louder for him but wont be all bass which I think is coming through his in ears whereas the mids / highs wont so much then standing next to the drums rather than in front.

    Overall volume is quite low, the kit is easily the loudest thing in the room. 

    I am tempted to just tell him to fuck off tbh. 
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  • WiresDreamDisastersWiresDreamDisasters Frets: 10065
    edited September 15
    Reflection from the back wall? lol. Okay. I'm sure he's hearing that in the middle of pummelling cymbals and toms.

    Your cabs might be too close to the wall. I'd bring them forward a bit maybe.

    You could try putting the guitar cabs on risers too.

    What is the ceiling like?
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
    `Karera wa mizu o nigora sete, sore o fukai yō ni misete imasu.' - Furīdorihi nīche
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  • Reflection from the back wall? lol. Okay. I'm sure he's hearing that in the middle of pummelling cymbals and toms.

    Your cabs might be too close to the wall. I'd bring them forward a bit maybe.

    You could try putting the guitar cabs on risers too.

    What is the ceiling like?
    Ceiling is a reasonable height, prob about 9 feet  but theres not much room to bring the amp much into the room. The short wall if I was still going to stand in front of it, could manage about 2 ft away probably whereas right now its maybe about 6 inches..although thinking about it the "wall" is actually a gobo with some assorted junk behind it (some cymbals stands I think) so its prob 6 inches off the gobo and the gobo is about 6 inches off the wall.   
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 4942
    Whistler said:
    Where in the room is the drummer? Where in the room are the guitar cabs?

    It is down to acoustics: when placing a speaker next to a hard surface, eg. the floor, you get a 6dB boost in the bass, because bass eminates in all directions but as it cannot go through the floor it bounces back, doubling the volume of the bass. Treble frequencies are directional so will travel in the direction the speaker is facing.

    Place a speaker next to the floor and a wall, you get a 12dB boost in the bass. Place the speaker in a corner, that is, next to the floor and two walls and you get an 18dB boost in the bass.

    Putting the speaker on a stand or chair away from walls help not overly accentuate the bass.

    All rooms have modal activity and bass builds up in corners. Don't let the drummer sit in a corner.
    https://imgur.com/a/b3rEudB

    https://i.imgur.com/xr1OySX.png

    So my first thought way to setup with the drums firing down the room but the drummer insists his bass drum sounds better with the reflection from the back wall *sigh*.

    Due to covid we have 6 boxes we can use so limited to how we can rearrange.

    I did try angling the cabs a way from him but this seems to be worse, I think because then he's only getting bass and non of the rest of the signal bouncing off the wall coming back to him.

    Problem is worse for my amp G2 because it has such tasty low end (I might have to dial out some of the thump but then whats the point of having the diezel) but there's some build up from both. 

    I wondered about putting the cabs on the other wall facing towards him, so it might be louder for him but wont be all bass which I think is coming through his in ears whereas the mids / highs wont so much then standing next to the drums rather than in front.

    Overall volume is quite low, the kit is easily the loudest thing in the room. 

    I am tempted to just tell him to fuck off tbh. 

    Or to cut volume tell him to play quieter, and with lighter sticks/brushes - winds our guy up a treat ;)
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • maltingsaudiomaltingsaudio Frets: 1422
    edited September 15
    Looking at the diagram, I would guess that it’s the bass guitarist amp which is causing the problem not necessarily the guitars, try a different EQ on it ie cut all, below 80hz and see if it’s better, if so dial in more lower end until a compromise is met, also high pass his ears send will help
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • Looking at the diagram, I would guess that it’s the bass guitarist amp which is causing the problem not necessarily the guitars, try a different EQ on it ie cut all, below 80hz and see if it’s better, if so dial in more lower end until a compromise is met, also high pass his ears send will help
    Possibly true...the claim is he cant hear the bass guitar but tbh he often doesn't know which instrument plays which part. 
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  • Bassists routinely dial in total gobshite tone too ;)
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
    `Karera wa mizu o nigora sete, sore o fukai yō ni misete imasu.' - Furīdorihi nīche
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  • Ed is now on bass. His amp isnt really big enough to be up to getting a really good sound but it's not terrible.
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