Bridge Pins: Snake oil or substance?

bermudianbrit

I've just heard about these fancy bridge pins from Martin that cost stupid money. What do we think, TFB, do different bridge pin materials actually make a difference? Seriously? I can't see how they would but stranger things have happened.

Benm39

Are they hand carved by an ancient mystic from wood from the Faraway Tree?

Kilgore

This often comes up on the Acoustic Guitar Forum. Some say yes others say no. 

What does seem apparent is that many claim that brass pins do have an effect, even if other materials don't. Which suggests there may be some truth to it. Just that in most cases the difference is insignificant. 

thermionic

I recently replaced the plastic bridge pins of my GS Mini with Taylor ebony ones. I wasn’t expecting a big change in sound, but the rest of the guitar is made of really nice woods (ebony bridge for instance) it seemed worth the £7. I’ve seen plastic pins go brittle an crack or snap, no such problems with ebony pins.

mgaw

woudn't bother personally...

malcolmkindness

I can't see how they could make much difference myself.

mrkb

I can understand that brass would add mass to the soundboard and change the resonance frequency slightly, that might be good, but equally might not, but as the pin doesn’t touch the string there would be little difference between similar density plastic materials.

stickyfiddle

I haven't tried them, but I can understand that heavier bridge pins will change how the top vibrates, and thus change the tone a little bit. I don't go in for fancy wooden ones or whatever. 

ICBM

I have carefully compared bone to plastic - by changing only three at once, in varying patterns (PPPBBB, PBPBPB, BPBPBP) if that makes sense!), to see if there was any change in the sound of the strings relative to each other, which is as close as I could think of to a controlled experiment. It didn't take long, you only have to slacken the strings rather than take them fully off, although I stopped after about three tries since I broke a string...

There was no detectable difference I could hear. So I kept the bone pins, as they look nice.

I do think there's a noticeable difference with brass pins though - I've played a few guitars with them in, but since I don't particularly like what they seem to do to the sound and I don't like the look of them, I haven't tried them on my own guitar.

danishbacon

https://youtu.be/2879MveigF0

This is a good comparison

Snags

Many, many moons ago I swapped the plastic pins on a low end Takamine for brass. Mostly because I struggled to get the plastic ones out to change strings, and the brass ones were EZ-pegs. Subjectively it was a bit brighter with the brass (still is) and they look better than the white plastic ones so they've stayed. 

I don't think I'd bother again though (and haven't on other acoustics).

Winny_Pooh

I use bone as it looks nicer. Saddle material does make a difference though, good plastic can be mellowing for harsh guitars and most bone is clear and bright. 

Whitecat

I always thought it was amusing that the ridiculously expensive Yamaha acoustics that are hand-built in Japan use plastic bridge pins. They make a big song and dance about the 'finest hand-selected materials' etc etc, use beautiful and rare minimal-to-no-runout Engelmann spruce and lovely rosewoods, dark ebony, wood bindings, all this loveliness and here are these plastic pins - and then I realised, it's because it doesn't matter. I'm 100% sure they would have compared wood and plastic and other things and gone with plastic (specifically ABS in this case) because aesthetically it's only an 'up close' thing - if I saw someone on stage with one I wouldn't be able to tell - and sonically, I guess they are virtually the same. 

And taking this further, the Billy Corgan signature model from the same range (although MIC) does have brass pins, because Billy specifically requested them and wanted to voice the guitar his way.

So my conclusion, like others, is that Yammy thinks/knows that brass pins make a difference, that most other materials do not, and that they are voicing their guitars how they want to voice them as such otherwise - after all, when you're talking a list price of £4200-£7500 surely the bridge pin material cost (from the usual suspects anyway) is not really a thing.

Edit: Billy talks about the brass pins briefly in this video:

Billy Corgan | Signature Yamaha LJ16BC

Rocker

Years ago I bought a set of Pinz brass bins.  The pins spelt my name, how vain can you get!

I thought my Taylor 310 sounded a bit brighter with brass instead of the original pins fitted.  I don't play acoustic guitar very often these days, I refitted the original pins as the brass ones were looking a bit tarnished. 

I never did did an AB test like @ICBM did but I thought they made the Taylor sound brighter.  The Taylor sound is on the darker side anyway, you like it or you don't.

Not a lot in it either way TBH.

thermionic

You must be the only person who thinks the Taylor sound is on the darker side! However, I also have an old 310 and it was quite probably the least Taylor-sounding of the range.

WezV

I think you will notice the change in mass affecting the tone more than the material.   Bone, plastic and wood will not vary that much in weight for a set of pins, but brass will be noticeably heavier

ICBM

thermionic said:

You must be the only person who thinks the Taylor sound is on the darker side! However, I also have an old 310 and it was quite probably the least Taylor-sounding of the range.

A friend of mine also had an early 310 which was easily the darkest and least Taylor-sounding Taylor I've ever heard, so I suspect it's something about that model.

thermionic

Mine is from 2001 I think, and it’s certainly mellowed out over the years.

danowens

I put a brass saddle, nut and pins in one of my acoustics and it really changed the sound in a big way, but that might be more the nut and saddle. 

ICBM

danowens said:

I put a brass saddle, nut and pins in one of my acoustics and it really changed the sound in a big way, but that might be more the nut and saddle. 

The saddle is by far the most important since it's the contact point for the vibration of all the strings wherever they're played. There's a very clear difference between any of the materials used, even between different types of plastic.

The nut is of some importance - theoretically you would only expect it to affect the open strings, but on an acoustic it seems to have a small effect even on fretted notes, I think because the far end of the neck and the undamped strings are still resonating.

The pins make only a minor difference, although I do think that you can hear it between brass and lighter non-metal pins (plastic/bone/wood) which all sound the same to me. I don't know if it's the weight or some other aspect.

TheMadMick

Read this thread and thought "I know, I'll swap my brass pins for some rosewood ones I've had for a while". I wanted to get some recording done so pushed them in but they didn't go fully in. So just left them.

This morning I shaved the pins so they went home expecting minimal effect. WRONG - my A3CR gained a lot of brightness. Wonder what's going on there then?