Copyright Protecting Your Songs

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I had wondered what the modern way of copyrighting one's written music was these days and was surprised to find a Google search came back with the old fashioned "post it to yourself" thing.

Surely there is a more convenient way of proving you wrote something these days, is there?

For example, do courts see Youtube upload dates as reliable evidence?
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Comments

  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    No idea but I have been wondering myself. I've been reluctant to upload a couple of pieces of music that I have written (Not that they are good enough to rip off!)
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  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 3301
    edited October 2020
    I've always been told to do things the old fashioned way i.e. include detailed information of the recording, dates, contributors, shares, audio/visual evidence. Place it in an envelope and send it to yourself, Special Delivery, so you have proof of posting and keep that slip. Store it clearly marked as to what it is and in the event of any dispute, should it go to the legal stage, the said package and information will be opened and assessed by legal bods

    I think people also used to lodge things with solicitors etc but the above seems to be the common and cheapest way.
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  • moremore Frets: 230
    edited October 2020
    If you write something , you automatically own the copyright. But, you need proof of when you wrote it .  You can publish it , record it or send it to to a copyright  registration company.  The  British library  recommend the post to yourself method ,for song writers .     
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    I can't see how the post to yourself thing is viable? You could post an empty unsealed envelope to yourself and then slip something in and seal it 5 years later. You have proof of posting but you have scammed that system.
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
    You need a good lawyer.  Having proof isn't enough, you need the warewithal to take it through the courts in order to get judgment in your favour.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    axisus said:
    I can't see how the post to yourself thing is viable? You could post an empty unsealed envelope to yourself and then slip something in and seal it 5 years later. You have proof of posting but you have scammed that system.
    Can you send an unsealed envelope registered delivery?

    I think you have to write what's being sent on the form, don't you?
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  • moremore Frets: 230
    You can buy secure, tamper proof  envelops. 
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Just upload it to YT .... you can then prove when you uploaded it. To be honest though if someone does rip if off you would need to spend a lot of money defending it ... with possibly no money to be gained from it. The law isn't interested someone ripped off your music, you would need to spend your own money pursuing it ... it would cost you thousands. 

    I've got s few songs I've written on Youtube, Apple Music, Spotify etc and about to load a whole album on at the end of October. I haven't copyrighted any of it but then to be honest I was never fussed about making money from it. I just enjoy the process of making music. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Just publish it,then you sign your rights over to PRS anyway, they collect any earnings on your behalf.
    In theory.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    andy_k said:
    Just publish it,then you sign your rights over to PRS anyway, they collect any earnings on your behalf.
    In theory.
    Does he give me one of his fancy bird-fretted guitars in return?
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23966
    I upload mine to Dropbox.
    Then there's proof of my upload date and it's at far lower risk of being randomly deleted by Youtube.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    I upload mine to Dropbox.
    Then there's proof of my upload date and it's at far lower risk of being randomly deleted by Youtube.
    Do you know if courts do indeed accept dropbox upload dates as legal proof?

    What do you mean about Youtube randomly deleting videos - does that happen?
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23966
    No idea if the courts accept it. But it's still evidence.

    Even with an upload date or an old fashioned "post it to yourself" idea, you still have to deal with any argument as to whether your mate played you "his" new song he week before you posted it to yourself and you just happened to get it recorded faster.

    And let's be honest - unless a song makes proper money nobody bothers. No point in suing to prove ownership of your song if someone else has only made £500 on it.
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    edited October 2020
    PRS= Performing rights Society, it is who you sign over the publishing portion of your music to, for them to collect any royalties-which is half of the possible income from writing a song. 
    I know it was a joke, but 50% is still a large chunk of anything you earn.
    The other half of it used to come from physical sales, but they don't exist any more, to any extent, and that portion comes direct from streaming services these days.
    Would you rather own a small share of either half of the pie, or the whole pie.
    As a side benefit, the tune is copywritten to yourself.
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  • mike257mike257 Frets: 374
    Copyright legally exists the moment a work is created, the only issue is the burden of proof. 

    As an independent musician, this is only really going to become an issue if somebody demonstrably copies your work and then earns significant enough income from it to be worth your while to pursue. At that point you would have to decide if it's worth mounting a legal challenge, and look at what proof you can supply that you created the original work and how you can demonstrate their work is derivative. In all but the most clear-cut cases, it's complex and potentially subjective because there's only so many ways you can throw the same handful of notes together. 
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  • thegummy said:
    axisus said:
    I can't see how the post to yourself thing is viable? You could post an empty unsealed envelope to yourself and then slip something in and seal it 5 years later. You have proof of posting but you have scammed that system.
    Can you send an unsealed envelope registered delivery?

    I think you have to write what's being sent on the form, don't you?
    People have been using the post it to yourself registered mail system for as long as I can remember.
    It works.
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