Vintage V100 - how much ‘better’ would a better guitar be?

Crazyblue1779

Inspired by seeing the comments on another thread it’s got me thinking. 

I have a Vintage V100 ‘Lemon Drop’. Before being owned by me it had its wiring etc upgraded and Tonerider pickups put in. 

I’ve since swapped them out for Iron Gear (Hot Slag / Rolling Mill), put some Gibson tuners on ,and had it properly set up. And it plays like a dream. 

I paid £300 for it and I’ve put maybe £100 more in between pickups, tuners, and set up. It sounds and feels great, and in my limited experience feels a lot more ‘expensive’ that it is. 

As per my other recent thread, I am possibly contemplating spending a good bit of money (£1500 ish) on a ‘better’ Les Paul, but part of me wonders (especially as an intermediate at best, bedroom guitarist) just how much better of a guitar something 4/5 times the price of my Vintage would be?

I mean I know it’ll be better but will it be ‘better better’?

 Or will this mainly be a psychological boost to know that the name on the headstock is different or that it’s more expensive?

£1500 isn’t a lot for some people but for me it’s a huge amount of money which is part of the reason why the doubt creeps in. I’d hate to buy something that price and end up finding out it’s not drastically different , to me anyway, from what I’ve already got.  

But of a rambling post but I think most people here know where I’m coming from. 

TINMAN82

The fact you like the Vintage so much makes it far less likely that you’d find a £1500 Les Paul to be a big upgrade. Different perhaps if you weren’t happy with it.

Perhaps put the cash into pedals/ a new amp instead?

Lesgrandepotato

It’ll feel physically different. Nitro has a different texture. Will it make a difference, maybe. I found when I bought my ‘proper’ Les Paul it was hard to play well. It was much more transparent and touch sensitive. 

Go and play some and see if it inspires you. £1500 can buy a lot of stuff, new amps and guitars and pedals and and and...

stonevibe

A better guitar would be about 2.5 better on the guitar scale of what is better.

roberty

Manufacturing tolerances are really tight across the board. It used to be that budget guitars could be a bit wonky but not so much now. I believe what your'e paying for is nicer wood, more expensive labour and better parts. My experience is a nice, resonant guitar will sound clearer in a mix without necessarily being louder

midiman1962

Hello, I tend to A/ B guitars when I buy a new one . I take the old one, play it in the shop , then try the new one and see what happens. As you say , whether it is 5 times better will be up to you to decide, but part of the process will be how much pleasue you get out of playing the guitar and whether you feel you are "worth" having the proper kit.

Jalapeno

IMHO you have a good instrument already - good enough for Midge Ure to gig with ! So don't have any inferiority feelings about it 

Getting a "real" Les Paul is a process rather than a simple £1500 transaction - there are many variances, neck/weight/pickups etc, so you may need to buy/sell a few before THE one reveals itself to you (given that going to shops is harder right now) - if you know of people with them nearby pester them for a try to get it clearer in your head what you want. 

For the proper GAS experience you need too drag this process out for as long as possible !  

monquixote

I think it's fair to say you aren't going to get a choir of angels singing and the answers to the secrets of guitar revealed.

It will probably be a bit better, but if you get one of Gibson's "Friday afternoon specials" it might be a bit worse. 

I'd definitely try before you buy and maybe consider getting something totally different like a Tele / SG / ... as that's always going to give you something new.

dazzajl

My experience is that the difference won’t be large enough to change the experience as much as you’d want. BUT if that G branded LP is calling you, it’s only going to get louder. 

As long as you buy used, then try whatever calls to you and you can move it along with little or no loss if you don’t get the thrill you want. 

If it was my cash, it might end up in a LP from higher up the food chain but more likely, something to compliment my V100. 

grayn

It's in our nature to want something "better", especially if we can raise some cash.
There's not any rational sense to it but wanting has nothing to do with needing.
Sounds like you have a great LP there and there are many, very good guitarists, who would rate your instrument.
But like most of us on this forum, you will have read of the benefits of buying certain brands from certain countries.
All those exotic woods and high end hardware, that could maybe even inspire you to become a better guitarist.
If you have some cash and an itch for another guitar, I suggest getting preowned and a brand that'll keep it's value.
Then you shouldn't lose out, whatever happens and it's all a great fun, learning curve, with probably no definitive answers.

roberty

Jalapeno said:

IMHO you have a good instrument already - good enough for Midge Ure to gig with ! So don't have any inferiority feelings about it 

Getting a "real" Les Paul is a process rather than a simple £1500 transaction - there are many variances, neck/weight/pickups etc, so you may need to buy/sell a few before THE one reveals itself to you (given that going to shops is harder right now) - if you know of people with them nearby pester them for a try to get it clearer in your head what you want. 

For the proper GAS experience you need too drag this process out for as long as possible !  

True, my fifth is 'the' one. Getting to know a few of them was part of the process for me

jdgm

I own a Vintage V100PGM lemon drop which is my main gigging guitar.  Easily as good as a LP, an amazing guitar for the money. I had to change the tuners (and paid for a good set-up from Flame guitars) but I'm knocked out by the stock pickups and wiring. 

IMO you will have to pay much more than £1500 to get a LP which is appreciably better - start at over £2k.

I have a LP Custom (with P90s) which I got years before the Vintage; it's beautiful, plays better (ebony board so different really) but cost me well over £2k - in 2012!

If you visit a guitar shop and play one of the new LP reissues you will see - they are easily better than the Vintage but are between £3k and £5k!!

mikem8634

It's not exactly the same, but i remember when I was a kid and I was going from one of those Shaftesbury Ric copies to a genuine Jetglo Rickenbacker 330. I loved the Shaftesbury (and indeed would have another one any day if they weren't going for ridiculous prices). I learned to play on it pretty much, so it felt right, and I upgraded a few things. I expected the real thing to be like a epiphany but it wasn't. Everything just felt a bit different and a bit nicer. But after a while I was playing better, tuning less, hearing more detail in the tone, more character in the pickups. It's value became apparent as I grew into it, and away, from the Shaftesbury. The Ric was a better guitar in every respect but it took time to see it. Had I stuck with the Shaftesbury I'd still have had about 80% of the playing experience but been equally as happy.

bluenile

It'll not be x5 the guitar compared to your Vintage, with budget guitars stepping up so much in quality in recent years the lines are a lot more blurred as to what more you are really getting for the money... Maybe some nicer pickups, PLEK'ed fretwork and the nitro finish off the top of my head. All things considered though if your heart is really set on a Gibson I'd recommend trying some out  so you can see for yourself - get a good price on one and you can always move it on in the future and not lose too much in the process, that's the power of the big F/G logo right there 

Crazyblue1779

Thanks for the replies everyone. 

The Vintage has something great that I can’t quite put my finger on. 

Absolutely part of the want to get something else is pure GAS, and it’s probably to scratch an itch that doesn’t actually need to be scratched. 

rossi

The only experience I can throw into the ring was my Epiphone Dot  block 335 SE  ,a special edition with blocks instead of dots and a veneer of matched maple .Looked good .I also tried a Gibson 335 at the same time .The Epiphone was clunkier ,a bit more rattly, higher action ,and the pickups dull at least to me .

So I tried modding the Dot to see what happened .First was the  Gotoh stop tail and  strings ,Gotoh bridge Grover ,tuners ,Tonerider Rocksongs pickups .Each step made it  a bit better .Lastly  a fret level although later CTS pots and a Switchcraft switch were also installed .So basically just the wood bits were Epiphone .It was transformed  from a decent guitar into a very good one and very similar in feel and playablity to The Gibson.The biggest jump was pickups .They were so much better it was obvious even tuning up for the first time after installing .the Gotoh parts were heavier and better made and even the tuners added to its overall depth and feel  which surprised me ..The fret level made it feel like an expensive guitar .The pots and gubbins didnt alter it  one little bit but were more reliable .I didnt keep it as it was a bit heavy to lug around jams in its case so I went all Tele.I do now have a Gibson MIdtown which came with that tight feeling of quality built in.

The Gibson had stuck in my mind how good it was but the modded Epi was very near it and the pickups may have been better.

Arktik83

Like most things guitars are subject to the law of diminishing returns.  A guitar that is priced at £3k isn't £2,000 better than one that is priced at £1k.  

If you really like your lemon drop I would just pool your money and see if you can get to a second hand custom shop bracket of Les Paul's.  Either that or look for a late 90's early 2000's LP Standard. 

Rather than be seduced by the "only a Gibson is good enough" bollix look for a Les Paul you bond with as much or more than your Lemon Drop because there is nothing worse than spending £1,000+ on a guitar and finding you don't bond with it and it's not a keeper b/c you'll be lucky to recover your outlay unless you're pretty patient or got a really sweet deal.  

If you're totally not arsed about the name on the headstock then look for maybe a high end Tokai or Greco or a Heritage.  I have a Heritage LP special and it's wonderful.  Definitely a case of if you do decide more is more then try out any potential guitar before you buy and have a good long think, write down what you liked/disliked if anything etc.  I know it may take the "fun" out of it but in the long term I think it'll help you find a new guitar that you're gonna keep for years to come.

Good luck!

Coldfingers

I watched this and guessed "wrong" a fair few times, I do get the draw of a Gibson though. It's totally irrational, but such fun !

YellowLedBetterMan

Coldfingers said:

I watched this and guessed "wrong" a fair few times, I do get the draw of a Gibson though. It's totally irrational, but such fun !

Funnily enough, I watched that today on the back of this thread and preferred the Vintage, thinking it was the Gibson because it sounded more warm and pleasant than the actual Gibson. It might have just been the model, but the Gibson sounded like it had the cheapo humbuckers you get in really crap import guitars, really thin and harsh.

jonnyburgo

It won't sound better but it will sound different. It may give you a little boost of the ol snake oil magic though. Play the one youre ging to buy first, then youll be able to decide if its worth it. At tge end of the day no two Gibson Les Pauls sound the same just as 2 vintage v100s wont. 

Id be more inclined to buy 2 guitars for your money that do things that Les Pauls don't

Cranky

You'll know if you go out and play a real Gibson at the shop.  Don't just order one online.

If you like the Vintage that much but are jonesin' for another guitar, why not try a different type of guitar?