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Starting to look very overpriced.

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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    It's amazing the way our brains will be so influenced by biases and that's certainly taken in to consideration with guitar pricing.

    I remember once I watched a Youtube video that was a perfect example of it - I can't remember the specific models but it was comparing two guitars, one more expensive, and the whole video was a very detailed breakdown of the guitar, deconstructing every part explaining what makes one more expensive while having identical function to the cheaper one then at the end the conclusion was "so this is a really good deal for a guitar, unless you're a pro you really are better off getting this one."

    So even though he'd just spent the whole video explaining that the expensive guitar wasn't functionally better in any way, he still clung to the idea that "a pro" would still opt for the more expensive one!
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    edited October 2020
    My American professional from last year is an Ash body, fairly weighty but not heavy, never actually weighed it, I dont really mind weights. 

    Its also a 4 piece body. I never noticed it til just now. 

    That might put some people off though. 
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    thegummy said:
    It's amazing the way our brains will be so influenced by biases and that's certainly taken in to consideration with guitar pricing.

    I remember once I watched a Youtube video that was a perfect example of it - I can't remember the specific models but it was comparing two guitars, one more expensive, and the whole video was a very detailed breakdown of the guitar, deconstructing every part explaining what makes one more expensive while having identical function to the cheaper one then at the end the conclusion was "so this is a really good deal for a guitar, unless you're a pro you really are better off getting this one."

    So even though he'd just spent the whole video explaining that the expensive guitar wasn't functionally better in any way, he still clung to the idea that "a pro" would still opt for the more expensive one!
    This is an example of where you justify paying way over the odds for a guitar that's no better by employing cognitive dissonance. 

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    thegummy said:

    Although there are other things that affect the minimum price that can be realistically asked so sometimes the demanded price can't be supplied. If you know what I mean.
    Ah yes. Made only to order. Another con companies use to appear they are going out of their way to provide you with something extra special. They probably have a warehouse full of them waiting for the next gullible mug to come along and buy one. 

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • GreatapeGreatape Frets: 3490
    Let's not forget the trajectory of the pound since 2016...

    I bought an AmPro I 2.5 years ago for £1100 new. 
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  • Gerz6558Gerz6558 Frets: 761
    edited October 2020
    The first American Pro models could still be had for 1200 as late as this year. Now the American Pro iteration mk2 are suddenly worth 1500-1600? Not sure how anybody can find that a reasonable increase, given all the reviews confess them to be a very minor evolution.

    The Johnny Marr Jag is another example. It got an increase over here a few years ago to the best part of 2k, whilst back in the states it has always been priced much lower. Presumably down to him being less popular.

    I dont see the above being anything to do with inflation or exchange rates.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    I didn't look in to the case too deeply so not sure of the details, but is it possible that since the price-fixing case, Fender have gone back to the oldschool way of having an RRP that's actually a lot higher than shops end up selling the item for whereas previously the RRP was what shops were forced to actually sell them for?
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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    edited October 2020
    thegummy said:
    I didn't look in to the case too deeply so not sure of the details, but is it possible that since the price-fixing case, Fender have gone back to the oldschool way of having an RRP that's actually a lot higher than shops end up selling the item for whereas previously the RRP was what shops were forced to actually sell them for?
    This is illegal price fixing though. Shops should, by legal precedent, be allowed to compete fairly with other shops. The problem is that it is difficult to enforce. If a shop keeps undercutting competitors then Fender/Gibson or whoever for example would just not supply that shop in order to keep the price of their product high by only supplying those shops who agree not to discount the product. It's known as coercive monopoly but goes by the more common terminology price gouging.  

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    Devil#20 said:
    thegummy said:
    I didn't look in to the case too deeply so not sure of the details, but is it possible that since the price-fixing case, Fender have gone back to the oldschool way of having an RRP that's actually a lot higher than shops end up selling the item for whereas previously the RRP was what shops were forced to actually sell them for?
    This is illegal price fixing though. Shops should, by legal precedent, be allowed to compete fairly with other shops. The problem is that it is difficult to enforce. If a shop keeps undercutting competitors then Fender/Gibson or whoever for example would just not supply that shop in order to keep the price of their product high by only supplying those shops who agree not to discount the product. It's known as coercive monopoly but goes by the more common terminology price gouging.  
    Wasn't it illegal price fixing that Fender got done for though?
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  • GoldenEraGuitarsGoldenEraGuitars Frets: 8820
    tFB Trader
    skunkwerx said:
    My American professional from last year is an Ash body, fairly weighty but not heavy, never actually weighed it, I dont really mind weights. 

    Its also a 4 piece body. I never noticed it til just now. 

    That might put some people off though. 
    The custom shop uses 4 piece bodies too. Some customers don’t have a clue about it until I’ve stripped the paint off and told them. 
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  • Devil#20Devil#20 Frets: 1910
    skunkwerx said:
    My American professional from last year is an Ash body, fairly weighty but not heavy, never actually weighed it, I dont really mind weights. 

    Its also a 4 piece body. I never noticed it til just now. 

    That might put some people off though. 
    The custom shop uses 4 piece bodies too. Some customers don’t have a clue about it until I’ve stripped the paint off and told them. 
    That's terrible. All premium priced guitars should be one piece bodies surely. 4 pieces means it's just made from offcuts. That's just taking the piss. There's enough food for thought in this thread to seriously question whether or not we're just victims of a huge confidence trick with premium ranges fom the main manufacturers. To be honest I've felt that way for a long while.  

    Ian

    Lowering my expectations has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11669
    Devil#20 said:
    skunkwerx said:
    My American professional from last year is an Ash body, fairly weighty but not heavy, never actually weighed it, I dont really mind weights. 

    Its also a 4 piece body. I never noticed it til just now. 

    That might put some people off though. 
    The custom shop uses 4 piece bodies too. Some customers don’t have a clue about it until I’ve stripped the paint off and told them. 
    That's terrible. All premium priced guitars should be one piece bodies surely. 4 pieces means it's just made from offcuts. That's just taking the piss. There's enough food for thought in this thread to seriously question whether or not we're just victims of a huge confidence trick with premium ranges fom the main manufacturers. To be honest I've felt that way for a long while.  
    I don't think there is much doubt with that really is there?

    £1600 for the standard range that the rich old lags on here will tell you is shit compared to the fifty custom shops they have, is utterly taking the piss.  Its a staggering amount of money for some wood and wires made in a cnc machine, screwed together and then sprayed by a robot.

    The genius of the marketing is though, its the only way to get a us made (which means quality nowhere else in industry) guitar with "Fender" on brand new is to pay that stuffed price.

    Someone once told me never buy a new bolt on guitar, probably correct!
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    edited October 2020
    skunkwerx said:
    My American professional from last year is an Ash body, fairly weighty but not heavy, never actually weighed it, I dont really mind weights. 

    Its also a 4 piece body. I never noticed it til just now. 

    That might put some people off though. 
    The custom shop uses 4 piece bodies too. Some customers don’t have a clue about it until I’ve stripped the paint off and told them. 
    Older ones perhaps, or specced that way for historical accuracy (70s reissues maybe?) I doubt it’s as common as one would think as the shop traveller that comes with nearly every Fender CS guitar now tells you how many pieces the body has. If you have that document, you know for fact. And I’m sure you’ve seen more than me but I’ve never seen a number higher than ‘3’ on a shop traveller, and most are 2. Have never seen a 1. 
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  • TINMAN82TINMAN82 Frets: 1845
    Devil#20 said:
    thegummy said:
    It's amazing the way our brains will be so influenced by biases and that's certainly taken in to consideration with guitar pricing.

    I remember once I watched a Youtube video that was a perfect example of it - I can't remember the specific models but it was comparing two guitars, one more expensive, and the whole video was a very detailed breakdown of the guitar, deconstructing every part explaining what makes one more expensive while having identical function to the cheaper one then at the end the conclusion was "so this is a really good deal for a guitar, unless you're a pro you really are better off getting this one."

    So even though he'd just spent the whole video explaining that the expensive guitar wasn't functionally better in any way, he still clung to the idea that "a pro" would still opt for the more expensive one!
    This is an example of where you justify paying way over the odds for a guitar that's no better by employing cognitive dissonance. 
    Some on here doth protest too much, methinks.

    I agree the new Am Pro 2 series seems over priced relative to what’s on offer. But you do get what you pay for with guitars, with a linear relationship between price and materials/ build quality up to a certain point. That point extends above £1k in my experience. Those who genuinely believe their unmodded squires are a match for the custom shop are applying as much cognitive dissonance as those forking out £6k for a heavy relic master built.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    TINMAN82 said:

    Some on here doth protest too much, methinks.

    I agree the new Am Pro 2 series seems over priced relative to what’s on offer. But you do get what you pay for with guitars, with a linear relationship between price and materials/ build quality up to a certain point. That point extends above £1k in my experience. Those who genuinely believe their unmodded squires are a match for the custom shop are applying as much cognitive dissonance as those forking out £6k for a heavy relic master built.
    Assuming you don't mean "cognitive dissonance" (because it wouldn't make sense), the Squier comment is true but you've had to make up an extreme example; no one is saying that 200 quid is the price point of diminished returns.
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    4 piece custom shop bodies? That's ridiculous...shouldn't a top quality Strat, Tele etc be shaped from a single piece of wood?  

    Is there any possible advantage of a 4 piece body?  If not, has anyone questioned Fender on this? 
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    Voxman said:
    4 piece custom shop bodies? That's ridiculous...shouldn't a top quality Strat, Tele etc be shaped from a single piece of wood?  

    Is there any possible advantage of a 4 piece body?  If not, has anyone questioned Fender on this? 
    They are almost never one piece. Alder and ash trees rarely grow big enough. I have seen the odd one-piece ash body but never on a Fender, only on boutique stuff.

    As I said above, I think 4-piece bodies would be extremely rare too. Take a look at any shop traveller and odds are it's a 2-piece, with the odd 3-piece, sometimes because it's specced that way ("duo-tone" varieties, for example that has an ash centre with two alder 'wings').
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  • GoldenEraGuitarsGoldenEraGuitars Frets: 8820
    tFB Trader
    Yes the bodies I was referring to certainly weren’t “new” custom shops. But they are out there. 

    It might blow your minds... but a 4 piece body, sonically, has no more magic than a 1 piece body. But alas, the Internet dictates 1 piece is the best option. Then again, the Internet says a lot of things :)
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    Voxman said:
    4 piece custom shop bodies? That's ridiculous...shouldn't a top quality Strat, Tele etc be shaped from a single piece of wood?  

    Is there any possible advantage of a 4 piece body?  If not, has anyone questioned Fender on this? 
    Isn't the whole point of Custom Shop for people who want guitars that are like vintage Fenders?

    Those weren't one-piece bodies were they?

    I don't know if there are advantages of 4 piece bodies but if the body is painted then there aren't any advantages to a one-piece.
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  • TINMAN82TINMAN82 Frets: 1845
    thegummy said:
    TINMAN82 said:

    Some on here doth protest too much, methinks.

    I agree the new Am Pro 2 series seems over priced relative to what’s on offer. But you do get what you pay for with guitars, with a linear relationship between price and materials/ build quality up to a certain point. That point extends above £1k in my experience. Those who genuinely believe their unmodded squires are a match for the custom shop are applying as much cognitive dissonance as those forking out £6k for a heavy relic master built.
    Assuming you don't mean "cognitive dissonance" (because it wouldn't make sense), the Squier comment is true but you've had to make up an extreme example; no one is saying that 200 quid is the price point of diminished returns.
    Cognitive dissonance was Devil#20s point, but yes I think you could apply it at both ends of the scale. 

    I used the extremes but I would also apply this argument to the vintera range (which according to you’re arbitrary £1k cut off would be as good a guitar as Fender produces). 
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