Intonation adjustment.. never works

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skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
It never has for me! I’ll adjust saddles as far as they go one way or another and it doesnt seem to make any bleeding difference. 

I thought I’d try it on my Lp junior as I noticed it was sharp, fairly equally across the strings. 

Its a non compensated wraparound so not gonna be hugely accurate but its now out and didnt used to be. 


Moved the bridge/tailpiece back. Quite far. Zero difference. 

Slacked all the strings off when doing it then retuned and stretched in again. Tried twice. 

I guess it could be an odd set of strings? I’ve changed strings twice since I first checked and found it to be ok so hard to say without restringing.. but I’ve adjusted stuff now :/ 

I actually hate any kind of adjustment. Hate it lol. Never seems to work, yet I take it for a set up and it comes back fine.. 

Action/relief doesnt seem too high but again I really arent good or patient with these things..
The only easy day, was yesterday...
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Comments

  • Alex2678Alex2678 Frets: 1088
    Not to be patronising but how are you checking?
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7731
    Always makes a big difference for me, however if you are mainly playing open chords then your issues may be at the nut. Then either recut the nut slots if too high or invest in an Earvana nut, never needed one for Fenders/Musicman/PRS but it really helped on my Gibson.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    Assuming you are already doing 12th fret vs open string checks, try something different.


    Tune so the 5th fret note is in tune.  Compare it to the 17th fret.   If its sharp, move the saddle away from the neck, if its flat, move it closer.  This takes any nut issues out of the equation altogether.



    I was going to suggest lowering pickups and using the neck one for your readings, but its a junior.   

    Always best done with new strings

    You may also need to try a more accurate tuner... what are you using?

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  • Pretty much whats been said before with the proviso that the strings need to be good quality too-
     Easiest way to check- is will the harmonic stable; with a dodgy batch of strings the harmonics wont be.

    After checking that I play the open string harmonic over the 12th fret, then fretted over the 12th fret,-note should be exactly the same.

     Also unless I'm using a tuner like a Peterson ,I find Im more accurate by ear.

     I find it much quicker and easier this way than trying to judge it with an octaves difference.

      Hope this helps.
    When logic and proportion
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    Cheers all. 

    Im doing this: 

    Tune up standard pitch, stretched in. 
    Play open string. In tune. Boss Tu-3. 
    Play harmonic over 12th fret. Same as open string, in tune. 

    Play fretted 12, sharp 3-4 cents (or red blocks on the tu-3). 

    Slacken all strings, screw tailpiece/bridge grub screws in to push the tailpiece further away from neck. 

    Restring, stretch to get it stable and re check. 
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14030
    tFB Trader
    Some valid comments above - Another pointer - When you fret the note, then don't press down hard as that can make the fretted note sharp, hence through out the results
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  • How are the lower fretted notes? If frets 1-5 are sharp (with the open string in tune) then it's probably not intonation, and maybe a problem with the nut (at least that's the issue I've got right now!). 
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  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 6021
    When I had this problem it was because the strings were too high at the nut.
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    Interesting! Will check that nut out says I!
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    Excessive relief is also a possibility. It's still odd that moving the bridge back doesn't affect it, but that does sound like the majority of the issue is the string stretching between the nut and the 12th fret not between the 12th fret and the bridge.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    When you fret the note, then don't press down hard as that can make the fretted note sharp, hence throughout the results
    Have somebody else perform the harmonic versus twelfth fret comparison.

    If the 3 or 4 cent error persists, the problem lies with the guitar. If error changes, the problem is pilot error.
    Be seeing you.
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    When you fret the note, then don't press down hard as that can make the fretted note sharp, hence throughout the results
    Have somebody else perform the harmonic versus twelfth fret comparison.

    If the 3 or 4 cent error persists, the problem lies with the guitar. If error changes, the problem is pilot error.
    Its likely just me. I find when I’ve been unsuccessful the first time, I am very impatient the following time. 

    I know it can intonate, as when I got it and checked it, it was fine or within tolerance.

    My auditory tolerance is much higher than my tolerance once I know something is out, if that makes sense haha. Chances are, if I didnt check, I’d never have noticed!
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • Tune to pitch at the first fret and then compare to the thirteenth fret to get the saddles right. 

    Check the open strings - they will likely be a few cents flat. Either live with this or start tinkering with the nut files....

    On electric guitar it’s better to get the fretted notes precise than the open strings as you tend to play more of them. Acoustic guitars are another matter...
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    DesWalker said:

    Tune to pitch at the first fret and then compare to the thirteenth fret to get the saddles right. 

    Check the open strings - they will likely be a few cents flat. Either live with this or start tinkering with the nut files....

    On electric guitar it’s better to get the fretted notes precise than the open strings as you tend to play more of them. Acoustic guitars are another matter...
    the first fret will still be affected by the nut if its too high, hence the suggestion to go 5th/17th to reduce the nuts impact as much as possible
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Intonate so the guitar is always flat when fretted, then when you play, press the strings down too hard with your fingers. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • WezV said:
    DesWalker said:

    Tune to pitch at the first fret and then compare to the thirteenth fret to get the saddles right. 

    Check the open strings - they will likely be a few cents flat. Either live with this or start tinkering with the nut files....

    On electric guitar it’s better to get the fretted notes precise than the open strings as you tend to play more of them. Acoustic guitars are another matter...
    the first fret will still be affected by the nut if its too high, hence the suggestion to go 5th/17th to reduce the nuts impact as much as possible

    Not in my experience.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    The way I do it is to tune each pair of strings (E/B, G/D, A/E) to a perfect fourth using the 5th and 7th fret harmonics, then compare the 19th-fret harmonic on the lower string to the 14th-fret note on the upper one, and the 12th-fret harmonic on the upper string to the 17th-fret note on the lower one. It's extremely quick and accurate, and takes the nut (completely) and relief (effectively, since the truss rod doesn't affect the neck much that far up) out of the equation.

    Tuning to a perfect fourth is correct for this since you're just using each string as a reference for the other - you're effectively comparing the same harmonics (5th fret and 12th fret harmonics are always a perfect octave apart), so the difference compared to tuning in equal temperament doesn't affect the result.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • If it's equally sharp across all strings doesn't that make it in tune ?
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    If it's equally sharp across all strings doesn't that make it in tune ?
    I mean I can tune each open string to the correct pitch bang on, but each string is sharp by about the same amount when played at the 12th. 

    If that makes sense, probably not the best at describing! 
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • PabcranePabcrane Frets: 489
    skunkwerx said:
    It never has for me! I’ll adjust saddles as far as they go one way or another and it doesnt seem to make any bleeding difference. 

    I thought I’d try it on my Lp junior as I noticed it was sharp, fairly equally across the strings. 

    Its a non compensated wraparound so not gonna be hugely accurate but its now out and didnt used to be. 


    Moved the bridge/tailpiece back. Quite far. Zero difference. 

    Slacked all the strings off when doing it then retuned and stretched in again. Tried twice. 

    I guess it could be an odd set of strings? I’ve changed strings twice since I first checked and found it to be ok so hard to say without restringing.. but I’ve adjusted stuff now  

    I actually hate any kind of adjustment. Hate it lol. Never seems to work, yet I take it for a set up and it comes back fine.. 

    Action/relief doesnt seem too high but again I really arent good or patient with these things..
    As I understand it you have taken the guitar for a set up in the past and it comes back fine.

    Why not give your tech a call and explain and ask him or her what they do to your guitar to get it nailed it. If they're a nice enough tech they know you'll be back when your instruments needs a bigger going over and shouldn't mind sharing that little bit of info?
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