So, does this mean the death of touring for new/young/niche bands and artists?

camf

A depressing but thorough twitter thread on what Brexit means for touring in Europe from the end of the year. 

https://twitter.com/Howard_Goodall/status/1326554078256656389

 

midiman1962

Interesting read and thanks for posting- just brought back the memories of how astounded I was to wake up and find the country had Voted to leave the EU

camf

Sorry. 

Brize

Started to read, but the sanctimony was overbearing.

camf

I didn't pick up the sanctimony... dismay, desperation, anger. I'm old enough for my touring ambitions to be easy collateral damage but if I was younger and this was my career going down the tubes, I'd be a lot more than sanctimonious about it. 

RobertW

He comes across as a sensationalist: 

1. If you're hoping to fly into Europe you're now going to need to acquire a plane ticket, this could cost you a colossal amount of money, and there's every possibility now that we've left the EU that your plane could crash into a mountain. 

2. If you were thinking of taking the ferry, don't think that any kind of deal between Boris and Trump will stop you from being eaten by a shark should the ferry sink. 

3. You will need to purchase Travel Insurance prior to leaving for you destination, but remember if you do become sick or injured it's probably going to be down to those xenophobic racist who voted for Brexit. 

camf

You’re probably right. It’ll all be fine. Storm in a teacup. 

prowla

It's just change.

camf

Haha.  

camf

I’m old enough to have had to help organise carnets for our European tours back in the 80s and 90s. It was expensive then, but one carnet did all the band’s gear but it had to be checked into and out of every border, which was a massive pain. If you really do have to pay for every individual item, that’s going to be really completely financially crippling for most bands. 

For most people on here it won’t mean a thing, but for those who tour or make their living as musicians, it looks bleak. Are you going to, or can you, pay these costs up front? Or do you spend time in Europe reprogramming the rig you’ve just hired and practicing on the less than ideal instruments you’ve also had to hire? And that’s just the start of it. 

Sure, the guy in the article is a composer and orchestra conductor but if what he’s saying is true - and it seems consistent with what the MU are saying - it’s very bad news for UK musicians. Europe has always been the springboard for UK bands looking to build an international reputation as it’s even harder for new bands to get permission to tour in the US. It looks like it’s about to get an awful lot harder. I’d have thought that on a music forum there’d be a bit more sympathy for the plight of musicians. 

thecolourbox

From what I've read about the changes, what he's written seems about right.

But what do I know, being a naive remainer who knows nothing. I suppose we will only have to wait until January to see if it was indeed "Project Fear" or whether we will suddenly start farting rainbows and bathing in money as soon as we are fully out

Hattigol

Can't help but think that this thread is soon going to be overrun with 'Brexit Good! Brexit Bad!' arguments pretty quickly...

merlin

I think it looks pretty grim and one of the reasons why I voted Remain was because about three quarters of my work is (was) in Europe. I guess lockdown will merge seamlessly into Brexit.

Just a question and I'm not trolling. @RobertW, have you ever toured in Europe?

camf

Hattigol said:

Can't help but think that this thread is soon going to be overrun with 'Brexit Good! Brexit Bad!' arguments pretty quickly...

Probably. And that would be a shame. If struggling musicians and crew can’t get a bit of empathy and support in places like this, they’re well and truly done for. 

camf

merlin said:

I think it looks pretty grim and one of the reasons why I voted Remain was because about three quarters of my work is (was) in Europe. I guess lockdown will merge seamlessly into Brexit.

Just a question and I'm not trolling. @RobertW, have you ever toured in Europe?

Sorry to hear this, @merlin. My best and most formative experiences as a musician were European tours. I’m sorry that experience might be lost for a lot of younger musicians. 

EricTheWeary

I was looking at the current government guidance re travel to the EU and the article is consistent with that so I'm assuming the rest is being quoted from the appropriate sections. 
It will be more inconvenient and more expensive travelling into the EU from 1/1/21 and there are likely to be additional business costs - but that seemed a likely outcome before anyone even voted in the referendum. Whether that's a price worth paying for that thing, you know that thing, that we get from having Brexit is a matter of judgement. 

RobertW

merlin said:

Just a question and I'm not trolling. @RobertW, have you ever toured in Europe?

I'm not a musician by trade, that particular dream never came to fruition. I've also never had sex with Angelina Jolie, but I'm not here complaining about how Billy Bob Thornton doesn't get to have sex with her now either. 

Look if in the past you've bundled yourself into the back of a Transit van and toured Europe, congratulations, you've lived the dream. I'm terribly sorry that from now on you're going to have to treat things more professionally; prepare paperwork, calculate the financial viability, you know, treat it like a job and not a holiday. But if it turns out the actual demand for your music doesn't exceed the expense of the trip, then that's probably on you and not the Bureau De Change.

zedhex

RobertW said:

merlin said:

Just a question and I'm not trolling. @RobertW, have you ever toured in Europe?

I'm not a musician by trade, that particular dream never came to fruition. I've also never had sex with Angelina Jolie, but I'm not here complaining about how Billy Bob Thornton doesn't get to have sex with her now either. 

Look if in the past you've bundled yourself into the back of a Transit van and toured Europe, congratulations, you've lived the dream. I'm terribly sorry that from now on you're going to have to treat things more professionally; prepare paperwork, calculate the financial viability, you know, treat it like a job and not a holiday. But if it turns out the actual demand for your music doesn't exceed the expense of the trip, then that's probably on you and not the Bureau De Change.

My jaw just hit the floor....  what the hell are you doing on a musicians forum?

AntonHunter

Wow. Someone needs a hug. Not from me mind, I'm too busy pissing about pretending to have gone on tours that were in fact just a holiday.

p90fool

I've worked as a musician in France, Germany and the Netherlands, and done a couple of lengthy European tours and a fair bit of studio work, and I've done it every time by winging it, looking for work on an ad hoc basis as a sideman as I go. 

Brexit effectively kills the way I've always done it, which was as simple as a guitarist moving from Cardiff to Edinburgh looking for work. 

Yes, you can apply for this and pay for that, but you need contracts or job offers in place, and the time delay just means they'll get someone else.

British orchestral musicians have it even worse, the EU will effectively be closed to most of them. 

Don't expect any sympathy on a forum of planning officers and IT nerds though @camf ; - amateur guitar collectors are even more disdainful of pro musicians than the general public are in my experience, probably through jealousy. 

Musicwolf

p90fool said:

I've worked as a musician in France, Germany and the Netherlands, and done a couple of lengthy European tours and a fair bit of studio work, and I've done it every time by winging it, looking for work on an ad hoc basis as a sideman as I go. 

Brexit effectively kills the way I've always done it, which was as simple as a guitarist moving from Cardiff to Edinburgh looking for work. 

Yes, you can apply for this and pay for that, but you need contracts or job offers in place, and the time delay just means they'll get someone else.

British orchestral musicians have it even worse, the EU will effectively be closed to most of them. 

Don't expect any sympathy on a forum of planning officers and IT nerds though @camf ; - amateur guitar collectors are even more disdainful of pro musicians than the general public are in my experience, probably through jealousy. 

Taking the guitar playing out of the equation what you are describing is no different to say a bricklayer working in Germany or someone from Eastern Europe coming over here to pick crops.  If Brexit means an end to freedom of movement then it will be a two way thing.  You will find it harder to gig in Europe (it will be still possible but less financially viable) but European musicians will have a similar problem.  They will pick up your gigs in Europe but you can pick up theirs in the UK (in theory).

The problem arrises when you are working in a sector where there is net migration.  Things are going to be pretty shit post Brexit.