I put a spell on you mix challenge voting thread!!!!!

poopot

Blimey!... long title!...

Time to vote.

All the entries are are in the playlist below:

https://soundcloud.com/thefretboard/sets/ipasoy-mix-challenge

you should be able to download the wav for each entry... import them into your DAW and a/b them against each other in all their unsoundclouded glory... they should also be roughly the same volume as I’m sure everyone mastered to -14lufs as requested

don’t vote for the original mix as it’s there for reference!... and also hotter than -14

vote for your favs (and maybe an explanation as to why)

1st place gets 5pts,
2nd place 3pts 
and 
3rd place 1pt...

you cant vote for your own entry...

voting closes midnight on the 18th Dec. The winner will be announced shortly afterwards where they will receive surely go to the top of Santa’s good list... everyone else will get a lump of coal!...

Stuckfast

So we're not allowed to vote for the first one? OK...

There was a lot to like about all of these so I imagine that means the multitrack was great! Definitely an ace vocal performance and some top class soloing there.

My random thoughts:

Bezzer -- probably my favourite lead guitar sound and I liked that you brought out the strings towards the end. Snare is a bit too loud and dry in the first part of the song. The mix as a whole is a bit on the soft/tubby side, it could do with more energy somewhere in the mid-range. Not sure if that bass will be audible on small speakers. 3 points.

Dainty -- definitely my favourite piano sound. I thought this mix was slightly undermined by the reverb choices. There's too much reverb on some things, especially the drums, and the reverb has too much going on in the low mids which made things sound muddy and boxy. You can hear that on the lead guitar for instance. 1 point.

Andy k -- I like the idea of bringing some creative aspects to the mix but I'm not entirely sure they are necessary here. The vinyl crackle seems a bit out of place given that the mix as a whole doesn't sound very retro, and the crazy delay on the vocal is cool but also a bit distracting. I really liked the lead guitar sound but I thought the drums lacked oomph and the snare gets a bit lost. The mix also gets a bit muddy in the busy sections.

oaf -- Clearly the best mix to my ears. Overall balance is really good and it has much more energy and life than the others. Arguably the whole thing is just a little bit thin/bright sounding but nothing that couldn't be sorted out at mastering. Vocal occasionally gets overshadowed by the guitars, and I'm not wowed by the reverb on the solo, but that's nit-picking. 5 points from me!

Bezzer

Stuckfast said:

 Snare is a bit too loud and dry in the first part of the song. The mix as a whole is a bit on the soft/tubby side, it could do with more energy somewhere in the mid-range. Not sure if that bass will be audible on small speakers. 3 points.

Can't argue with the snare, I'd intended to automate that down a far bit but ... um ... clearly forgot to do so. Didn't sound to dry when I'd mixed it and 7/8ths speed! Ha ha
Bass, I did check on some smaller speakers and it cut through fine for my tastes but can see where you're coming from.  I think the same may be true of the mids, I set it how I think I wanted to hear it but I can see where you're coming from too.  Thanks for the comments though, all good things to work on and consider more.

I'd actually come here to listen to and comment on the others but have realised after 11 hours of meetings my ears can't take any more!  I'll come back with a fresh set later in the week.

oaf

@Bezzer pleasing overall balance. The snare has been mentioned already (a bit loud and slightly static somehow) but not a big issue to my ear. Some warmth to it but slightly polite overall (some work on the compression?) No/little(?) effort to deal with some of the vocal glitches that bugged me when I was working on it (e.g. "because you're" at 3:10-3:11) but I'm being overly fussy now (and you can only work with what you've been given). Solo felt very nicely controlled and the strings were well expressed. Perhaps a slight lack of glue? Despite queries/negatives I've brought up here I thought this was good.

@Dainty too much reverb, almost a bit phase-y at times. Kick sounded nice (perhaps slightly too weighty/prominent but borderline). A little mushy and incoherent in places which meant it lacked energy and felt a bit polite somehow. I liked how the tambourine helped to articulate the solo/background pulse. Moving from the solo back to the lyric was maybe a bit abrupt? You stopped the repeated piano motif being annoying (good work!) Same comment as Bezzer re vocal glitches, could still hear them. Would like to hear this with several dB less reverb.

@andy_k I liked the way you were more creative with this however I think if you were going "old record" then you probably had to go all in. The vocal delay effect was interesting but too distracting for me (could have maybe automated it in/out at points?) and very modern (contradicting the old record idea). A decent overall balance but does lose coherence when everyone is playing and it is busier, the low end is less successful in this regard I think. Same comment as Bezzer re vocal glitches, could still hear them. Would have liked a slightly more forward presentation (eq/compression) but enjoyed hearing a fresher/different take on it.

@Stuckfast thanks for the comments. I was conscious of it being a bit brittle but it was a slightly rushed last minute thing! ...and my wife said there was too much delay on the solo too! Ha ha.

5 points @Bezzer

3 points @Dainty

1 point @andy_k

Could easily have flipped 2nd/3rd place and enjoyed them all.

As an aside I liked the vocal performance but found parts of it quite difficult, at times going beyond saturation into borderline distortion (to my ear anyway) with some odd glitches (retuning/edits?) Maybe it was just me Thanks everyone.

andy_k

Another great challenge.

Good set of multitracks, I struggled to find the phase problem, guessing it was one of the drum tracks though?

I like the idea we are being given the chance to act as Producer, in that we can choose what to include, which is a bit different to acting as simply a mixer for somebody's project, and it is good to be allowed to be creative.

There was a lot to work with, in a relatively short track, which made it a hard choice with what to feature and in my case I chose to keep it quite sparse to let the vocal stand out and the guitar solos pop out.

I don’t have great monitors (Ilouds) but I try to check things on HD650’s and small speakers for making sure the mix works on the usual stuff, but can’t do the car test so loud stuff is a problem for me.

I decided to omit one of the rhythm guitars completely as I felt there was too much going on behind the vocal, tried to enhance the ‘psycho’ feel of the piano instead because it just suited the song, and did a submix of the strings to be a bed for the parts that are featured in those sections.

There was a lot of choice for the guitar solo, but I ran the DI through THU Rigplayer with a hot plexi sound and delay and it was instant Gary Moore, so that’s what I used to make it pop.

I had to edit the drums slightly as I felt there was a small timing issue early on, so I blended the kick and snare with samples and used the overheads for the main drum ambience.

The bass had a lot of saturation, and a bit of chorus to get it to sit fairly level in the mix, and then I tried to get the vocal to sit on top. Plenty of compression to level it out, and I tried to not go overboard with the reverb, but did feel it needed ‘more’, so I bounced a glitchy echo track and edited it in places to see how it felt.

 In the real world, this would be a first revision mix, and I know in some places it is too much, but in others it worked well so I left it all in.

Last decision was to add some fairy dust, or rather dust on the deck, for fun.

I managed to get it down to -14 LUFS, but did have to adjust some things to get it right, by changing the levels of the solo and end section to get the average right, and it all came out within half a DB on the Loudness penalty site - so that’s what I went with.

I am judging this a little differently again this time, and will have 2 sessions, one based on the Soundcloud mixes via my laptop speakers, and one based on the wavs and my monitors and cans.

In no particular order--well the order they came in--

At first listen, on Soundcloud.

Bezzer,

A solid mix compared to the original, which isn’t a fair comparison as the original is louder, and the only thing that seems off is the vocal level and treatment, it doesn’t seem to pop or be bright enough, it is a well mixed version of the song though.

Dainty,

An equally good mix, which does seem to have more attention paid to the vocal, the reverb is a little heavy but does help to lift them out of the mix in a good way. The guitar solo is an improvement over Bezzers, but mainly due to my own tastes, and louder is better, right.

Another great mix.

Oaf,

On first listen, this mix sounds wrong to me, The second rhythm guitar is too loud and seems to overpower the vocal completely, which is too quiet in the mix. There is a mid presence that seems to jump out above everything. In contrast, the solo section has an unusual tone, not unpleasant, but is a little dry, and almost sounds like an afterthought rather than part of the mix. 

I am basing these comments on a first listen, on a crappy chrome book through Soundcloud, so I’ll give my marks based on a proper go through studio equipment,

Round 2, in Reaper, through Ilouds and HD650s with a look at SPAN on the master bus.

Bezzer

Bass feels a bit boomy at start, drums lack coherence, solo section has good balance although I felt guitar needed something to help it pop out. Rhythm guitar 2 seems a little loud after the break, but strings sound good in this section, finale seems a bit too explosive.

Dainty

Nice intro, which eliminates the problematic snare altogether, Bass feels a little too dynamic in the early verse, and there is a lot of interference with the kick during the solo, good effort on the guitar tone, helps to make it stand out. The last section sounds a bit cluttered in the bass and low mids again, which gets in the way of the extra strings and guitar,

Oaf, 

Abrupt start ?, or is it something at my end, sounds chopped? One of the rhythm guitars is too loud, and middy, to my ears, and interferes with the vocal, which feels a bit underwhelming. Feels like there is too much going on under solo, In general it feels like there is a lot fighting for attention. Everything gets a moment in the spotlight though.

None of this is meant as criticism, they are all great versions of a packed session, lots of artistic choices to make, and not a lot of space to do it in. in the real world, we would all take the comments on board, make adjustments and job done.

Final scores, 

@Dainty--5

@Bezzer--3

@Oaf--1

on to the next.....

Bezzer

@oaf and @andy_k thanks for the comments chaps, all very useful and I will bear these things in mind moving on.  I can't say I will act on them necessarily, obviously, but definitely some things I hadn't thought of.

I'm never sure how to judge these things really because ... I'm a bloody amateur who knows what he likes but isn't really well equipped enough to explain fully what that is.  And these things are always subjective ... intent is as big a part of how a track is mixed as whether you like it as a listener or not.  Just ask Metallica ....  

These were all good mixes in my mind, just some fitted my tastes better than others.

Anyhew... that in mind I will give my brief thoughts.

Dainty ... as others have said, it's far too heavy on the reverb, at least for my tastes and the vocals feel almost separate from the backing track either because of volume or something on the vocal 'verb.  Not sure, but that's sort of how it feels to me.  The lead guitar tone felt a bit woolly ... like the low mids are a bit too pronounced while the sparkle has been pulled back.  Right at the end the strings seemed to get lost in the wall of sound ... that is a tricky section to balance though.

Andy_k ... I'm afraid I immediately got all judgey on this because I detest fake crackle.  I hate crackle full stop to be honest it does bad things to my ears so I was glad when it faded back.  The delay both in level and modulation was far to extreme for my, pretty damn extreme, tastes.  It detracted from the song for me.  I really liked the lead guitar tone but it felt push a little too far back.

Oaf ... it's a really balanced mix overall and really professional sounding.  It sounds really narrow to me though, at least until the end of the solo it felt like the band where in small room A and the pianist was down the hall somewhere, so that was a little off putting.  After the solo I preferred it, there felt like there was a bit more space in the room.  The lead guitar tone itself I really liked but I think it need more wetness to it to gel with the track, it felt separated from the overall mix.

Like I say though, I don't really know how to talk about this as eloquently technically as the rest of you so I apologise for the bluntness and hope I have not offended, I'm purely saying how things feel to my ears.  Heard individually I would have enjoyed all three ... but we're putting them back to back and saying "WHOS BEST!?!?!" ... so to end that the Bristol jury votes are:

@oaf - 5 points
@Dainty - 3 points
@andy_k - 1 point

Edit : @oaf ... I listened again, and again, I can't for the life of me hear the vocal glitches you're on about.  I think I should give up this mixing lark!

oaf

@poopot some comments/scores from you?

poopot

Will have a listen later today...

Dainty

Well Here goes my Tuppenhappenys worth..
Fab Guitar BTW!


Oaf 5 Points
Seems all there with a good mix of levels. a little bit flat maybe, but tbh I cant stand the SONG!!!

Bezzer 3 Points
Seems to have a nice smooth feel throughout.  The guitar is a little dry for my liking in the solo and lacks warmth..

Andy 1 point
I like the choice of production and stepping away from the actual track itself, just a bit to confused for my liking.


All good work considering the actual AUDIO was a bit Cack!

HaPpY ChRiStMaS

poopot

Ok... My tuppence worth... i've listened on monitors, earbuds, in the car etc etc
All very small nit picking points from me and prolly will come across harsher than its meant to come across. all entries sound great tbh...

Bezzer:

Nice clear vox but overall the whole mix needs a bit of sparkle. Little drum heavy for me but thats just me. There is a weird clunk that bugs me tho' about 2mins47 in just after she sings "spell on you" sounds like the sound man fell over

Dainty:

Like the lack of drums on the intro (shit drum track anyway) and the drums sit nice throughout the rest of the track. starts to get nice and wide for the vocal and gets bigger/wider thereon out. Vocal is clear but a smidge wet with verb for my taste... and... not convince by the loud organ swell just before the end, could do with pulling back a bit imo.

AndyK:

Dont like the crackle but thats just a personal thing. The vocal is nice and clear but the delay can go, the repeats just serve to muddy the mix... Guitars up the middle sound dull and muddy and when pushed out wide just carry that mud with them... but at the same time the mix is too harsh in the higher frequencies... Solo sounds quite thin and spikey.

Oaf:

Too guitar heavy for me (and they're my guitars!!!!!) Piano seems to get lost throughout as does the bass. Vox are clear until the heavier parts then they dry up and get lost in the mix... Theres a high freq hiss in the breakdown, I think its the verb thats on the snare but its quite prominent. Lacks a bit of dynamics I feel.

Points:

5pts @Bezzer ;
3pts @Dainty ;
1pt @oaf ;

All good tho chaps... Will have some nice stuff to play with in the new year for you (58 tracks and counting in one project ).... get the Hallelujah production challenge out of the way first...

poopot

Voting is closed