Kickstart stale playing

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HaychHaych Frets: 5596
It's been a few months since I really picked up a guitar properly, until recently.  It was probably prior to lockdown #1 when I was last playing with any kind of enthusiasm.

Even then, though, my playing was stale.  I'd pick the guitar up, play the same few riffs, licks, excerpts of songs etc and then put the guitar down again.  Sometimes I'd come up with something interesting which would prompt a writing/recording session but I was still doing nothing new.

The same is true even now.  The muscle memory is there and comfortable playing through what I know but the enthusiasm and willpower to learn anything that takes me out of that comfort zone is sadly lacking.

What's the best way to get me out of that zone and to start learning something new and interesting again?

TIA

There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16013
    I'm exactly the same ............where to go from here to get to the next level
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  • When I got a wall after playing for a few years, I'd thought of learning an artist note for note (I chose Chuck Berry), but gave up before I started.

    I've been banging away at the same old crap for nearly thirty years and don't believe I can play anything else! I would have been at my peak at 28, but could never get any bands going that would last until I took up bass and banged away on the root notes for a couple of years until the band folded and I hardly picked up bass or guitar for 15 years after getting married. Surprisingly when I started playing again, I was able to rattle out the old tunes with no bother, but still no band action until I chose life as a bassist again. 

    I'm a much better bassist than guitarist these days. I evolved from playing root notes too.

    Short answer. To improve its best to play with others and get gigging.

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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    edited January 2021
    Haych said:
    It's been a few months since I really picked up a guitar properly, until recently.  It was probably prior to lockdown #1 when I was last playing with any kind of enthusiasm.

    Even then, though, my playing was stale.  I'd pick the guitar up, play the same few riffs, licks, excerpts of songs etc and then put the guitar down again.  Sometimes I'd come up with something interesting which would prompt a writing/recording session but I was still doing nothing new.

    The same is true even now.  The muscle memory is there and comfortable playing through what I know but the enthusiasm and willpower to learn anything that takes me out of that comfort zone is sadly lacking.

    What's the best way to get me out of that zone and to start learning something new and interesting again?

    TIA
    It’s a horrible situation to be in. First off it’s good that you can acknowledge your lack of motivation and enthusiasm. Secondly, are you able to pinpoint exactly why you’re lacking this? Is it due to lockdown and the wider issues in society (which is understandable), or something else? I know I have certain triggers that affect my motivation and enthusiasm. Being aware of these triggers allows me to deal with them or at least ride them out when they strike. 

    I’ve no idea where you’re at with your playing, but for me, the best thing usually is having a pressing concern, like learning/working on something for a gig or similar. Having the pressure of doing something in front of others is a great motivator. But as that’s out the window for the foreseeable, it’s important to find other ways of getting motivated.

    Think about, or even write this stuff down. 

    What music do you like? Are there any other bands/players in said music that you’re yet to check out?

    Who are your favourite guitarists/musicians? Why do you like them? Reconnecting with what we initially love is a great thing. 

    Are there any styles of music you’re yet to listen too but have been meaning to check out? Finding new styles of music can be great for inspiration and taking you out of your comfort zone. 

    Write down what you feel you’re good at - we can easily forget to do this. 

    Write down just a few things you’re not so good at. 

    Write down a few things you’d like to get better at. These can be songs/concepts/techniques/theory etc. The most important thing here is to keep things small and achievable. Trying to learn that epic solo that is already out of reach will lead to more frustration and lack of motivation. Learning how to appreciate learning just the smallest bit of info is a big thing. But try and stick with one thing at a time and see it through! Also know that by taking ourselves out of our comfort zone, things do take time to get in our playing. 

    How best do you work? Do you need a set routine or are you good at going with the flow? How much time are you able to put aside? Only having say 30mins a day is fine. A focussed 30mins is way better than an aimless 2hours. 

    Ease up on yourself, we’re our own worst critics.

    Actively take a break from playing and be comfortable with that. 

    Failing any or all of the above, buy a new guitar, amp or pedal wink   

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  • phil_bphil_b Frets: 2010
    I guess the answer is to play with others but that's not so easy in these social distant times
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited January 2021
    In the circumstances I’d say choose a style and explore it. I actually can’t think of a more rewarding and enjoyable activity than that. The style can be broad (eg jazz) or narrow (eg Wes Montgomery). 

    I have spent the last 3 years exploring two things only: the altered scale and the half-whole scale on the V chord. It has TOTALLY awoken my desire to understand and play music again. It’s quite incredible. I can lose myself for hours in these notes. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • viz said:
    In the circumstances I’d say pick a style and explore it. I actually can’t think of a more rewarding and enjoyable activity than that. The style can be broad (eg jazz) or narrow (eg Wes Montgomery). 

    I have spent the last 3 years exploring two things only: the altered scale and the half-whole scale on the V chord. It has TOTALLY awoken my desire to understand and play music again. It’s quite incredible. I can lose myself for hours in these notes. 
    This exactly.  During the first lockdown I started looking for something to get my motivation back.  I looked into fingerstyle blues, I thought it would be a breeze for me to pick up some delta style acoustic music what with my background in classical guitar.  To my surprise I realized how difficult it is to hold a steady bass note with my thumb while plucking out accompaniment and melody with the fingers.   This has been my focus ever since and I am loving the struggle and admit I am not making a lot of progress yet but I need this kind of challenge.  Keep digging for your challenge. 

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    Brad said:
    Haych said:
    It's been a few months since I really picked up a guitar properly, until recently.  It was probably prior to lockdown #1 when I was last playing with any kind of enthusiasm.

    Even then, though, my playing was stale.  I'd pick the guitar up, play the same few riffs, licks, excerpts of songs etc and then put the guitar down again.  Sometimes I'd come up with something interesting which would prompt a writing/recording session but I was still doing nothing new.

    The same is true even now.  The muscle memory is there and comfortable playing through what I know but the enthusiasm and willpower to learn anything that takes me out of that comfort zone is sadly lacking.

    What's the best way to get me out of that zone and to start learning something new and interesting again?

    TIA
    It’s a horrible situation to be in. First off it’s good that you can acknowledge your lack of motivation and enthusiasm. Secondly, are you able to pinpoint exactly why you’re lacking this? Is it due to lockdown and the wider issues in society (which is understandable), or something else? I know I have certain triggers that affect my motivation and enthusiasm. Being aware of these triggers allows me to deal with them or at least ride them out when they strike. 

    I’ve no idea where you’re at with your playing, but for me, the best thing usually is having a pressing concern, like learning/working on something for a gig or similar. Having the pressure of doing something in front of others is a great motivator. But as that’s out the window for the foreseeable, it’s important to find other ways of getting motivated.

    Think about, or even write this stuff down. 

    What music do you like? Are there any other bands/players in said music that you’re yet to check out?

    Who are your favourite guitarists/musicians? Why do you like them? Reconnecting with what we initially love is a great thing. 

    Are there any styles of music you’re yet to listen too but have been meaning to check out? Finding new styles of music can be great for inspiration and taking you out of your comfort zone. 

    Write down what you feel you’re good at - we can easily forget to do this. 

    Write down just a few things you’re not so good at. 

    Write down a few things you’d like to get better at. These can be songs/concepts/techniques/theory etc. The most important thing here is to keep things small and achievable. Trying to learn that epic solo that is already out of reach will lead to more frustration and lack of motivation. Learning how to appreciate learning just the smallest bit of info is a big thing. But try and stick with one thing at a time and see it through! Also know that by taking ourselves out of our comfort zone, things do take time to get in our playing. 

    How best do you work? Do you need a set routine or are you good at going with the flow? How much time are you able to put aside? Only having say 30mins a day is fine. A focussed 30mins is way better than an aimless 2hours. 

    Ease up on yourself, we’re our own worst critics.

    Actively take a break from playing and be comfortable with that. 

    Failing any or all of the above, buy a new guitar, amp or pedal wink   

    I suppose my problem is twofold:

    Firstly, I don't have great technique.  This isn't something that bothers me overly as I know I've grown beyond it as a player.  I do ok.

    I had professional lessons for several years which transformed my playing for the better.  But I was trying to learn a lot of Paul Gilbert exercises, string skipping, fast arpeggios and things like that.  I practised for hours but with little progress and even less in the way of results.

    I feel slightly bitter about that as it was time wasted I could have used for learning something useful.  I learned the hard way that after a point the coordination between my left and right hands was never going to improve.

    I'm past that now, my playing moved in a different direction and I no longer feel the need to play fast in that style anymore.

    Secondly, I'm not what you would call musically talented, and this bothers me a lot more than the technique issue.  Every single note I've ever played on the guitar has been hard work and painful.

    I am not one of those people who can pick up a guitar or sit at a piano and naturally work out a melody of progression.  Over the years I have got a bit better at it but it's still hard work and painful progress.

    I don't "feel" the music in the way that other do and I find it incredibly annoying when somebody can come along and start playing with very little effort - I don't have that natural ability or talent.

    The compound effect of this is that what I can play I can play quite well.  The muscle memory has learned the parts and feels comfortable playing those parts, those scales, chords, licks and riffs etc.  So breaking out into anything new is hard because the muscle memory fights what I want to do, I become frustrated and eventually give up.

    I'd love to have that ability to hear a melody, a lick or riff and be able to translate that into playing it on the guitar, or improvising along with it on the guitar.

    Unfortunately, my musicality is more mechanical in nature.  I'm possibly aspergic to a degree and maybe this is partly the problem - I lack the emotional response to what I hear, I am not "moved" by the music but I have a certain mechanical response that's the result of years of very hard graft and locked into the muscles more than it is my heart, mind and soul.

    Hope that explains things a bit more.

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    @Haych ;;

    Well, it’s good that you don’t feel hamstrung by technique, or lack of (although I’ve no doubt it’s a lot better than you give yourself credit for). 

    I completely identify with your experience learning all the technique orientated stuff by the way. And it’s easy to feel bitter about ‘wasted time’ - I’ve had my fair share believe me. Sometimes though, we need to go through that to really get to where we need to be. 

    On your second point, everyone’s ‘musical intuition’ and journey is different. So really try not to get annoyed by seeing others do things ‘effortlessly’. It really is self-defeating and won’t help your motivation. If you know you take a more mechanical approach, then be comfortable with that and stick with it for now. You absolutely can and will get better at hearing things and playing them on the instrument. But it takes time, listening to and learning the right things and taking the right approach that suits the way YOU learn. 

    You mentioned how taking lessons transformed your playing for the better. It might be worth considering doing so again, but it’ll probably be a 
    case of undoing a fair bit of what has got you here and re-learning the instrument somewhat. But that in itself should get you out of your comfort zone and put you on a better path.  

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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    I was thinking about signing up for an online guitar course but don't know how useful it would be.

    Covid aside, there aren't that many (try zero) guitar teachers worth their salt in my area without having to drive down the M4 for half an hour each way.  That adds time I don't especially have.

    I really like Tim Pierce and am subscribed to his YouTube channel.  His enthusiasm for the instrument is incredible and he always seems happy to be doing what he does.

    Unlike some others (well, I'm thinking of one other YouTube music channel in particular) he never seems to have a bad word to say about anyone or anything.

    His masterclass series is $19 per month, that's probably going to be a fraction of the cost of taking up professional 1:1 lessons again, but I wonder how useful it would be.  The advantage of the 1:1 sessions is that a good teacher can zone in on something you're particularly having an issue with.  The online courses are bound to be a one solution fits all kind of approach.

    If anyone has any experience of the Tim Pierce course I'd be interested to know what they thought of it.

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • Re "musical intuition", can you hear and identify all the intervals in a song? I can't myself, but this sort of thing:


    And then play them - me neither :-)

    I saw a good video of Rick Beato analysing the top 10 songs and identifying the chord sequence, I know he does a ear training course (I have no experience of it) there's probably other courses out there also.

    Last year I signed up to artistworks for a year (Guthrie Trapp), there was a load of good stuff there - he's big into knowing your arpeggios, pentatonics and scales for each chord and recognizing the triads - or parts of - all over the fretboard.

    Just signed up to Truefire this year, fancied the Howard Morgen course and what he says has a lot in common with what Guthrie Trapp advocates, changing one note of a major triad gives a maj 7, then dominant 7 etc etc. Started looking around Truefire, and well well, Frank Vignola is saying pretty much the same :-) I can't say that I truly know what it is they're  saying, though I'm aware of it, think I understand it, and am certainly trying to get to know it!

    I only mentioned Guthrie Trapp as I recognized the name Tim Pierce from a couple of his videos (no experience of Tim Pierce though sorry):






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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Here's some ideas, some things that I do to improve anyway. 

    As an overall instrument 
    Take a basic song, work out the basic chord structure and the melody and then see if you can work out a way of playing it as a solo piece so it sounds good just on one guitar. This comes in handy when your handed a guitar at a party and need to play something that works on it's own. 

    To freshen and improve lead playing
    Don't allow muscle memory to lead your playing. Pre determine the notes you are going to play in a solo by targeting the 3rds and fifth notes on the chords you are going to be playing over. So the solo comes from your head rather than the same old tired position playing. 

    To expand your chord voicing
    Forget the normal simple chords and get into some more advanced chord voicing. Start with some inverted chord voicing, often called slash chords. So take a Cmaj and put the E first so you have EGC instead of CEG for example. Then try some tricks like playing an Em chord over a B bass note or some poly chords like C over half a G chord. 
    Think about the kind of chords piano players use ... they tend to use much more interesting chord voicing than we do so I tend to steal a lot from piano players. 

    Try to be different. 
    I think this is the most important thing. Muck around with how you pick the strings. Try strange interval stretches. Experiment with harmonics all over the neck. Bend up behind the nut, try using your fingers and thumb for a different tone, turn your pick round so you use the less pointed bit for a fatter tone. Vary how you pick for maximum expression. Try all upstrokes for an aggressive attack for example. Change the tuning and see if that brings out new styles for you. 


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    Try playing what you can play but in a slightly different order, at a slightly different rhythm and come up with something different  :)
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  • I'm sure many of the more advanced players will slaughter this suggestion, but I use Rocksmith to play along with and it feels like you have someone/something to play along with, rather than just hitting notes with no target.
    Might not help you improve that much, but I find it a lot more enjoyable than just playing to an empty room and anything that keeps me playing is a good thing.

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  • I'm sure many of the more advanced players will slaughter this suggestion, but I use Rocksmith to play along with and it feels like you have someone/something to play along with, rather than just hitting notes with no target.
    Might not help you improve that much, but I find it a lot more enjoyable than just playing to an empty room and anything that keeps me playing is a good thing.

    Both those things deserve a wis, so have one! It's whatever floats your own boat that counts. We (and I'd deffo include myself) can easily spend too much time doing something we don't actually enjoy that much just to live up to other peoples expectations of us and guitarists in general. 

    We also spend too much time RIGHT NOW worrying about what we didn't do earlier in our lives. To paraphrase the quote from "Bridge Of Spies" ...  it doesn't help. What helps is what you do today, instead of sitting there worrying about what you did or didn't do in the past. 

    Right, now I'm off to learn that bloody solo piece I've been pretending to learn for the last few weeks. The Eric Roche arrangement of the MASH theme, for anyone that cares. :-) 

    Back to the OP. Do something guitar-related that isn't work and doesn't have any objective other than having a pleasant 30 minutes with a guitar. The rest will come when you're ready to receive it. 
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    We do actually have Rocksmith somewhere. My lad had it and while a bit ham fisted used to play it a lot when he was in his guitar phase - back when he was young enough to still want to be like dad. 

    Then he discovered PlayStation, computers, hip-hop and the guitar went south :(

    I thought it was a very good idea but had massive latency issues which would drive me nuts. The lad didn’t seem to mind so much. 

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • Book a lesson with @Brad - he’s excellent. 
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    My band, Red For Dissent
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    edited January 2021
    Einstein (sort of) once said 'the definition of madness is repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome'. I think a lot of people feel like you do because that's exactly what they've been doing..

    Here's my two pence;

    If you went to a train station ticket office and said 'I'd like to buy a ticket please' you'd be asked 'where do you want to go?' It's a very sensible question for obvious reasons.. but no so obvious based on my own experience and chatting to others when it comes to guitarists (and other fields)

    I reckon that most people stuck in a rut could help themselves by doing the following;

    Write down the top 5 musicians that as an amalgam would be the musician you want to be (can be just guitarists if you like but not necessarily. Gotta limit it to 5 (enabling constraints). Now write down what you really like and what you don't like so much about them. Listen to as much stuff by the musician you can get your hands on and write down the top 5 tracks that are exemplars of what you really love about them.

    You now have a destination...

    Now transpose (yourself) the stuff you selected. If you find there's something that you like harmonically/melodically and you want to know 'why' look into the theory (let's call this theory with a purpose). If you find something you can't technically play then conceive of some technical exercises to build your technique (technique with a purpose). Notice I don't subscribe to the study of theory or technique in isolation.

    Try and make something up every day (improvise/compose) in the style of your favourites along with transcribing.

    If you really dig into the history of musicians (even those that pedal theory and technique books - they gotta make a living) you'll struggle to find anyone who knowingly or not didn't do the above.

    Happy New Year and good luck.

    Si
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  • grappagreengrappagreen Frets: 1340
    edited January 2021
    And a little tale for good measure.

    A man says to his wife that he'd really like a swimming pool in his back garden. His wife is overjoyed. First thing he does is order a load of different shovels - some are brand new and shiny, others are old and tarnished but have loads of vintage shovel mojo. He also acquires a shovel that was used to dig the foundations to the Albert hall - its great having a shovel with so much history..
    A few weeks later (after he's played around with all of his new shovels) he grabs a couple of books; 'The Theory of Outdoor Swimming Pools' and 'Shovel techniques' and then spends the next 11 months studying. He diligently digs a load of test holes using his shovel collection and joins a Shovel forum to discuss the merits of shovels (where they all fall out over shovels!).
    After 12 months he's still sitting outside without a new swimming pool as he still has no hole in the ground..

    His annoying neighbour leans over the fence one day and says 'Isn't it about time you actually dug a hole?' He goes back inside to sit with his frustrated wife..

    Key points;
    • The shovel you use is largely irrelevant as long as it's functional (doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't enjoy shovel lore btw)
    • You actually have to put some effort into digging the hole - you can discuss shovels, keep digging test holes, understand the theory of swimming pools. Until you commit to actually digging you'll never a) achieve a hole, b) understand what it is to be a 'hole digger' and build the autonomous functionality in your brain to be able to dig holes without conscious thought.
    Imagine if you'd tried to learn to pass your driving test without ever actually driving? I imagine you can both speak English and drive very competently whilst being able to do both without having to think about the mechanics of either? You can probably do both at the same time. How did you learn these amazingly complex things? Hint - you learned the theory afterwards and you didn't actually need to know any of the why to do the thing itself. Key point is that simply transcribing and playing the language of your influences will get you closer to your goal than any other mechanism.

    I'm aware this little tale will potentially meet with some disapproval here. It's only a light hearted ditty...

    Si
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  • DB1DB1 Frets: 5024
    I've lol'd and wis'd the above points @grappagreen ;. The last post is where I've found myself.

    I like Wes - simple, buy and L-5. I love BB - get a Lucille. I like rockabilly - a Setzer Hot Rod arrives. I want an all round guitar - PRS594. I want to play Delta Blues - buy an L-00, or similar.  I wanna be Django as well - easy, buy a gypsy jazz guitar. Oh, an an ES-125 for the swing, jump blues type stuff. It's not the answer, nor are the dozens of Truefire, Active Melody, Blues Guitar Unleashed, Robin Nolan, etc, courses sitting unopened on my computer.

    I play the same stuff on each and every one of them, and it's frustrating but difficult to get out of. But I think I'm going to follow your advice on that - the first post.

    And, tying it up neatly with the second post, it sounds like I'm playing most of it with a shovel.
    Call me Dave.
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    Well I’m mostly happy with my gear. I wouldn’t mind a nice Strat when I can afford one. 

    Don’t get me wrong, I love drooling over guitars and if money was no object I’d have one of each of all my favourite guitars, all in white. 

    My ES Les Paul ticks most of the boxes though, it’s incredibly versatile and sounds incredible whatever genre of music I attempt to play. 

    I have a Fromell modded Fender DeVille but that gets very little use these days. The Spark get most of the attention. 

    So gear isn’t really an issue. Although my old guitar teacher recommended occasionally switching guitars since a different feel, or tone, or even just a change can inspire something new. I don’t mean he was suggesting constantly changing gear, just switching between guitars you already have. 

    I did risk £15 and signed up for the Tim Pierce masterclass. The amount of material in there is incredible! Hopefully I can find some useful stuff in there, I reckon it would be hard not to. We’ll see. 

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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