Bought a new 2020 Gibson ES-335...but...

executor

Hi folks,


New member here.

Hope you are all doing well and belated happy new year to you all!


I have owned/own a few other Gibsons (USA and Montana) over the years (but by no means am I an expert) but my last Gibson purchase was around 10 years ago.
I kinda lost interest in in-production Gibsons over the last 5-10 years when they were making all those crazy robot guitars and whacky colour schemes and all...
But with the change of ownership, I regained interest in the brand, and I was always looking for a nice ES-335 and I really dug the spec of the figured variant of the new 335s in the USA line - figured top with cherry finish, block in-lays and kluson-style tuners look very nice IMO. Also the T-type pups are quite nice. 

So, after a bit of waiting (seems like not many of these are available at the moment) I recently picked up one of the USA ES-335 from the new collection (nashville made) in figured sixties cherry.
Really like the figuring in the maple top of the example I received (really good combo of graining + flaming... I know some people prefer having just crazy flame/quilt or just graining but I always liked a bit of graining on cherry 335s like the actual 60's examples and I think I am getting the best of both worlds here!) and sound is nice but I found a few flaws and just wanted to hear experienced members' thoughts:-

Pic of the top:




Issues

-Some light surface level scuffs/scratches on the clearcoat near the tailpiece. There are couple of other 'streaks' surface-level scratches on a couple of other areas on the top. Obviously, not ideal but I am not too bothered about these in isolation as they are just surface level scratches and can be easily corrected but still would have prefer if they weren't present!






-Slight divots on the treble side of the last two frets. The divots are not sharp or anything, only really can be felt with my nails, just running fingers is ok.







-Slight 'bubbling' on the clear coat on the binding on the body. I think this is due to that particular spot (around 2cm in length) being shaved a little more than surrounding areas. when I run my finger over, I can feel slight unevenness.





Given these flaws/issues I am wondering whether I should return this example or keep and ask for a discount - I am on the fence with this one because I think the figuring is lovely in this example and I think the sound is nice but since I purchased a new example (AFAIK this example wasn't a demo or anything. The shop received from Gibson EU, opened the box, took the photos for me and shipped out to me the same day).
I did receive pictures of other examples of the same model they had in stock but they didn't have tops as nice as the example I current have (was surprised to that there is so much variation with these figured ES tops, more so than LPs) and they also had some cosmetic issues as well, albeit in different areas.

I understand Gibsons are generally never 'perfect' in terms of finishing and fine, cosmetic details as a lot of human hands involved but I wonder if the flaws above are within the "acceptable range", especially the last two issues.

And I am guessing if I were to go down the route of returning and finding another one, I will potentially be spending a lot of time and energy in the pursuit of a "flawless" example, which may or may not have a top as nice as this or not quite sound right.


Some shops are offering this at £2999 atm, others at £3199 (which I think is the new RRP for these figured USA versions?).
I did get a little discount of £100 (not related to the above issues) off £2999 + 3 sets of D'Addario NYXL1046's.
As of now, the dealer is not willing to give me any cash discounts but are willing to give £100 in store gift card if I decided to keep this example.



If you could please share your thoughts on the above issues and what you think is a reasonable monetary compensation if I decided to keep this, I would be grateful!


Thank you for reading this long post!

KDS

Welcome to the forum, there are more knowledgable people on here..... but I'd want a full refund at that kind of money and take the time to shop around

rossi

I wouldnt have even looked if  it played well .To  me its a musical instrument not a priceless treasure so play on .

lustycourtier

There’s nothing there that would concern me. Beautiful looking guitar

chrisj1602

Looks very nice, if it plays well I’d take the £100 credit and buy a pedal or something!

hendrix2430

Beautiful! I am considering one of those as well, the for version though. Personally I wouldn’t worry about the issues you outlined. But if they will bother you down the line, I think you should return it! 

stickyfiddle

Those are mostly quite minor issues imo; there is no such thing as a perfect Gibson. If it plays well and sounds good I wouldn't sweat it for a second. 

The only thing that might annoy me would be the clear coat on the binding - looks like it's been buffed a little heavily and that's gone through the clear coat. Might be worth asking for a discount, but I wouldn't return an otherwise good guitar over it.

LPManic

These type of finish detective posts make my blood boil. 

Two options: 1. Get a refund 2. Don't get a refund.

End of thread.

KDS

I seem to be in the minority, if I was spending £3k+ on a guitar I'd want the shop to give it a thorough check over, setup, change the strings to my preference, etc to give me as much confidence as possible. I bought an R7 several years ago, can't remember what shop it was and they did all that and more.  It does look a nice guitar, maybe I was being bit harsh. Has someone has already said if it plays and sounds good..... enjoy it  

Majorscale

Nothing too untoward there. I wouldn’t even have complained.

Perfection? Buy a Collings, but they’re bigger coin..

brucegill

Welcome to the forum! And a happy new year

that looks like a cracking top, just right to me. Not too much flame, and the dark areas really look good. 

Personally -

marks on top wouldn’t bother me if they look like you could polish them out. Maybe they got there when stringing the guitar up? 

frets wouldn’t bother me if you can’t feel the indents when playing. 

Bubble in lacquer is hard to see in the photos. Can’t really judge that. 

I would check the intonation though. Looks like your out of adjustment on the E and G string. If the fretted note is sharp, you’ve got no more room for adjustment. And possibly the D and e string? If they’re flat when fretted at the 12, again you haven’t got any/much room. 

JezWynd

With the exception of the frets, they do appear to be minor cosmetic issues, and even the fret issue probably won't affect playability. With that in mind I'd probably accept the offer of 100 voucher but I know that minor flaws do affect people differently. If they're going to have an effect on your enjoyment of an expensive purchase, it might be best to send it back and wait until you can select a perfect example in person. It is a very nice top though and you might wait a long time to find another as good. Decisions, decisions... 

TINMAN82

Short answer: These are extremely minor issues, variants of which will likely be found on any ES-335 you swap it for. 

Longer answer: The finish swirls could easily be polished out with big bends encore scratch remover, although you’ll replace them quickly just by playing it. The fret issues aren't ideal but I’d be amazed if you notice while playing. The clear coat “bubble” will be forgotten as soon as you put your first ding in it.

I had a similar looking figured 335 with more serious issues. It’s more important on this model to check the neck angle is ok (not requiring extreme bridge height for good action). And that the bridge/ tailpiece are properly centred with good string alignment along the neck. Assuming these things are ok and it plays/ sounds great, you’re pretty lucky to have been offered £100 compensation!

executor

KDS said:

Welcome to the forum, there are more knowledgable people on here..... but I'd want a full refund at that kind of money and take the time to shop around

Thanks for your reply! Yes, they are more than happy to take it back and give me a full refund but the top just looks so nice, and it plays nicely too.

There aren't many of these available in the UK at the moment and that's why I am thinking of maybe negotiating a reasonable deal but I guess you have a point, given the high price point of the item.

rossi said:

I wouldnt have evenlooked if  it played well .To  me its a musical instrument not a priceless treasure so play on .

Thanks for your reply! I totally get your point but it's just that there are flaws, which could potentially become an expensive fix - especially fixing the last two frets, which could be simply reshaping or could be as extreme as needing to level/crown all the frets to be the same...

I am less worried about the surface scratch...

soma1975

I'd say that is in far better condition than other brand new Gibsons I have seen. 

I think you either accept it as being totally representative of their QC or get a different sort of guitar. 

I think it is beautiful. 

Fishboy7

Nothing there that would bother me. Great looking guitar. 

deadstring

You did well,
last 335 (63 memphis reissue) I bought unseen (I know I know, but it was one of those 2016 blowout deals)
had a nut cut too low, humpy fretboard, bridge too high/poor neck set, glue slopped round inside,
f-holes cut out  with a butter knife.

birtner

That’s a £3k guitar you’re talking about...

executor

lustycourtier said:

There’s nothing there that would concern me. Beautiful looking guitar

Thank you for your reply!

chrisj1602 said:

Looks very nice, if it plays well I’d take the £100 credit and buy a pedal or something!

Thank you for your reply!

hendrix2430 said:

Beautiful! I am considering one of those as well, the for version though. Personally I wouldn’t worry about the issues you outlined. But if they will bother you down the line, I think you should return it! 

Thank you for your reply! what do you mean by "the for version"? I guess I will have to work out a reasonable discount to compensate for these "issues" so that they don't bother me down the line

stickyfiddle said:

Those are mostly quite minor issues imo; there is no such thing as a perfect Gibson. If it plays well and sounds good I wouldn't sweat it for a second. 

The only thing that might annoy me would be the clear coat on the binding - looks like it's been buffed a little heavily and that's gone through the clear coat. Might be worth asking for a discount, but I wouldn't return an otherwise good guitar over it.

Thank you for your reply! Yes, I am aware that Gibsons are never really "perfect". My question I guess really was whether these constitute marks of handwork or "flaws". The fractures in frets and the binding are clearly "flaws" imo.
Re: clear coat - I think you might be right. probably an overzealous polisher!

LPManic said:

These type of finish detective posts make my blood boil. 

Two options: 1. Get a refund 2. Don't get a refund.

End of thread.

Thank you for your reply, and apologies if I annoyed you. It's just that this is my first guitar purchase in over 10 years, that's why I just wanted to tap into experienced members' wisdom...

KDS said:

I seem to be in the minority, if I was spending £3k+ on a guitar I'd want the shop to give it a thorough check over, setup, change the strings to my preference, etc to give me as much confidence as possible. I bought an R7 several years ago, can't remember what shop it was and they did all that and more.  It does look a nice guitar, maybe I was being bit harsh. Has someone has already said if it plays and sounds good..... enjoy it  

I am with you but from what I can see there aren't many shops nowadays (especially the big ones) that actually go through such processes anymore

Majorscale said:

Nothing too untoward there. I wouldn’t even have complained.

Thank you for your reply!

brucegill said:

I would check the intonation though. Looks like your out of adjustment on the E and G string. If the fretted note is sharp, you’ve got no more room for adjustment. And possibly the D and e string? If they’re flat when fretted at the 12, again you haven’t got any/much room. 

Yes, I am not too bothered about the surface level scuff.

I definitely don't feel the frets when playing, only can really feel the 'fracture'/'divots' once i go there with my nails. The only things that bugs me is that correcting them could potentially become an expensive fix - which could be simply reshaping or could be as extreme as needing to level/crown all the frets to be the same...

I am less worried about the surface scratch...

re: intonation - duly noted!

JezWynd said:

With the exception of the frets, they do appear to be minor cosmetic issues, and even the fret issue probably won't affect playability. With that in mind I'd probably accept the offer of 100 voucher but I know that minor flaws do affect people differently. If they're going to have an effect on your enjoyment of an expensive purchase, it might be best to send it back and wait until you can select a perfect example in person. It is a very nice top though and you might wait a long time to find another as good. Decisions, decisions... 

Thank you for your reply! Indeed the frets dont actually affect playability but as I mentioned in a few of the replies above, I am just a little worried that rectifying them could potentially become an expensive job!

TINMAN82 said:

I had a similar looking figured 335 with more serious issues. It’s more important on this model to check the neck angle is ok (not requiring extreme bridge height for good action). And that the bridge/ tailpiece are properly centred with good string alignment along the neck. Assuming these things are ok and it plays/ sounds great, you’re pretty lucky to have been offered £100 compensation!

Thank you for your reply. I am not too bothered about the surface level scratches. It's mostly the fractures on the two frets and the 'bubbling' on the binding that I am a little worried about. 

But I think you are right - I think it's likely that other examples will have similar "issues", and as I've mentioned, indeed other examples the dealer has shown me had some cosmetic "issues" too, albeit in different capacities.

And thanks for mentioning the neck angle, alignment etc - any tips on checking these?

soma1975 said:

I'd say that is in far better condition than other brand new Gibsons I have seen. 

I think you either accept it as being totally representative of their QC or get a different sort of guitar. 

I think it is beautiful. 

Thank you for your reply! I guess Gibson still hasn't ironed out the QC issues but yes, I am aware these guitars will never be 100% "perfect".

Fishboy7 said:

Nothing there that would bother me. Great looking guitar. 

Thank you for your reply!

brucegill

Have to admit I almost bought a 330 CS VOS and then noticed in the pics the F holes weren’t finished at all and had burs of wood sticking out all over the place. Unbelievable for something that was £4K. Ended up ordering a used Collings for the same price. I don’t buy into the whole “mojo” shit I’m afraid. 

However, if the OPs intonation is ok and neck angle, I’d just enjoy it and play it  

Jalapeno

brucegill said:

However, if the OPs intonation is ok and neck angle, I’d just enjoy it and play it  

This.  You'll have to wait a while for one as pretty as that, that plays perfectly and has no blemishes.