The recent violence on Capitol Hill

octatonic

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Fretwired said:

Jalapeno said:

Attempted coup d'état I'd call it !

Interesting to see even Mike Pence and #1 slimebag Mitch McConnell disown Trump (before the storming)

Oh please .. it wasn't a coup d'état .. :-) A small rabble managed to breach Capitol Hill as the powers that be didn't have enough security. It was a leaderless rabble with no plan or objective who couldn't believe how easy it was to breach the security (source: BBC News). A cynic might say it was deliberate to get something Trump could be charged with - incitement to riot, disturbing the business of Congress and the Senate and damage to public property. Normal service will be resumed tomorrow and Biden will be sworn in as president as planned.

The BBC gets the world's worst journalism award for personal opinion and hyperbole dressed up as facts. If only the BBC's journalists had a grounding in US history - this sort of thing has happened before.

You have to acknowledge that if these protestors/terrorists (pick one) were black then police wouldn't simply allow them to walk away.

I can't believe you wrote that or that three people gave you a wis. Fucking disgraceful ...

An unarmed woman was shot and killed by police ... murder .. she was white. Here you go ... I'm off.

Obviously this is a tragedy and we will see exactly what the circumstances are about it.

But, and this the important thing, if you cannot see that the way in which the Police/National Guard are treating these protestors as being different to the way they treated BLM protestors then you're living outside reality.

I'd rather this situation not tip over into violence, just as I wished that it didn't with the BLM protests but there is no parity between the response from law enforcement between the show different events.

Posting that photo was a cheap shot too- you should remove it.

RaymondLin

I recall when that guy got shot by that kid (from another state) in Washington, some Trump supporters said that "if they weren't out protesting, they wouldn't have been shot".  

I wonder if they would say that to this woman who died.

Both tragic, but one was on street protesting as the law allowed.

The other….i think the US allows people to shoot people breaking in your own home, this instance, hundreds and hundreds of people stormed in the Capitol and some with automatic weapons.

They all should have been shot the minute put 1 toe through the door, every single one of them. 

MagicPigDetective

Trump belatedly  asked them to leave but not one word of condemnation for their actions, which included placing pipe bombs outside a Democrat office. 

RaymondLin

MagicPigDetective said:

Trump asked them to leave but not one word of condemnation for their actions, which included placing pipe bombs outside a Democrat office. 

Anyone who take his side is as bad as he is.

Paul_C

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Fretwired said:

Jalapeno said:

Attempted coup d'état I'd call it !

Interesting to see even Mike Pence and #1 slimebag Mitch McConnell disown Trump (before the storming)

Oh please .. it wasn't a coup d'état .. :-) A small rabble managed to breach Capitol Hill as the powers that be didn't have enough security. It was a leaderless rabble with no plan or objective who couldn't believe how easy it was to breach the security (source: BBC News). A cynic might say it was deliberate to get something Trump could be charged with - incitement to riot, disturbing the business of Congress and the Senate and damage to public property. Normal service will be resumed tomorrow and Biden will be sworn in as president as planned.

The BBC gets the world's worst journalism award for personal opinion and hyperbole dressed up as facts. If only the BBC's journalists had a grounding in US history - this sort of thing has happened before.

You have to acknowledge that if these protestors/terrorists (pick one) were black then police wouldn't simply allow them to walk away.

I can't believe you wrote that or that three people gave you a wis. Fucking disgraceful ...

An unarmed woman was shot and killed by police ... murder .. she was white. Here you go ... I'm off.

<ADMIN: Edited to remove photo of same >

<ADMIN: deleted>

Fretwired

octatonic said:

Obviously this is a tragedy and we will see exactly what the circumstances are about it.

But, and this the important thing, if you cannot see that the way in which the Police/National Guard are treating these protestors as being different to the way they treated BLM protestors then, frankly, you are part of the problem and you're living outside reality.

Posting that photo was a cheap shot too- you should remove it.

No. Your comment was a cheap shot. Police in Washington stood back while BLM protesters smashed up businesses - many of them were white. US police kill plenty of white people - statistically more black people die but the police in the US are trigger happy.

Trump is a nasty evil man but his rabble are nothing that the US system should be scared of .. this is nothing more than a minor riot .. there wasn't even that much violence. The press blew it up out of proportion.

The Mayor has now deployed 2,700 heavily armed national guardsmen and Congress is reconvening to carry on with business. Business as usual.

UnclePsychosis

"the press blew it out of proportion"

Angry, armed mob storm the Capitol to disrupt them from carrying out the democratic process after being egged on by the sitting president that the election was rigged. 

You're an utter clown, have a word with yourself. 

digitalscream

Right, knock it off with the personal shit. If anyone feels they need to, they should get comfortable with the idea of a spell in the cooler.

Same goes for anybody posting photos of the woman who was shot.

octatonic

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Obviously this is a tragedy and we will see exactly what the circumstances are about it.

But, and this the important thing, if you cannot see that the way in which the Police/National Guard are treating these protestors as being different to the way they treated BLM protestors then, frankly, you are part of the problem and you're living outside reality.

Posting that photo was a cheap shot too- you should remove it.

No. Your comment was a cheap shot. Police in Washington stood back while BLM protesters smashed up businesses - many of them were white. US police kill plenty of white people - statistically more black people die but the police in the US are trigger happy.

Trump is a nasty evil man but his rabble are nothing that the US system should be scared of .. this is nothing more than a minor riot .. there wasn't even that much violence. The press blew it up out of proportion.

The Mayor has now deployed 2,700 heavily armed national guardsmen and Congress is reconvening to carry on with business. Business as usual. 

'A minor riot'.
What planet are you living on?
This is the president of the US basically calling for insurrection.
With him or against him- and it worked.

rze99

Incitement to riot by a fascist. 

octatonic

rze99 said:

Incitement to riot by a fascist. 

Exactly.
This is the most consequential days of the last 20 or so years, and some people can't even seen it.
This is serious.

RaymondLin

I love all the play down his supporters are doing.  They KNOW they are wrong, but there is a part of their brain that just can't say they are.

A mob with automatic weapons stormed the Capitol.

Read that out loud, if you can't grasp the gravity of that, read it again, and again.

Fretwired

UnclePsychosis said:

"the press blew it out of proportion"

Angry, armed mob storm the Capitol to disrupt them from carrying out the democratic process after being egged on by the sitting president that the election was rigged. 

You're an utter clown, have a word with yourself. 

Armed with what? Police found 5 weapons and arrested 15 people. How many people were there storming the building? The press (BBC) says 'hundreds' not thousands. Yes it was ugly but Congress is functioning again, the election is being ratified as I type and Biden will be sworn in as planned. The problem was a lack of police. And from what I have just read most protesters left the building peacefully when asked and not much damage has been done bar some broken windows.

octatonic

RaymondLin said:

I love all the play down his supporters are doing.  They KNOW they are wrong, but there is a part of their brain that just can't say they are.

A mob with automatic weapons stormed the Capitol.

Read that out loud, if you can't grasp the gravity of that, read it again, and again.

You won't get through to them.
These protestors- 'they are just expressing their first amendment right to protest'.
But BLM- 'they are committing violence'.
It is an extraordinary example of double think.

RaymondLin

Twitter has suspended Trump for 12 hrs!!!

He is on course to be banned on Jan 20th permanently. 

Fretwired

RaymondLin said:

Twitter has suspended Trump for 12 hrs!!!

He is on course to be banned on Jan 20th permanently. 

Should ban him for life. I'm pretty sure he'll be up before a judge before long. Inciting people to political violence is a crime in the USA.

MagicPigDetective

Fretwired said:

MagicPigDetective said:

.

Apparently the last Capitol breach was by the British in 1814.

Even George Bush is calling this an insurrection.

Was it? I don't think so. The 1954 United States Capitol shooting was an attack on March 1, 1954, by four Puerto Rican nationalists; they shot 30 rounds from semi-automatic pistols from the Ladies' Gallery (a balcony for visitors) of the House of Representatives chamber in the United States Capitol. They wanted to highlight their desire for Puerto Rican independence from US rule. 

George Bush .. what a joke. The National Guard would have cleared these jokers in 15 minutes.

US media are treating the 1814 incident, when the building was burnt, as the last breach. I assume as security was breached and there was forced entry. The 1954 incident seems to be people who were let in by security to the viewing gallery, so presumably why they are not counting it as a breach. 

Fretwired

RaymondLin said:

I love all the play down his supporters are doing.  They KNOW they are wrong, but there is a part of their brain that just can't say they are.

A mob with automatic weapons stormed the Capitol.

Read that out loud, if you can't grasp the gravity of that, read it again, and again.

What automatic weapons? Police found five handguns.

Fretwired

MagicPigDetective said:

Fretwired said:

MagicPigDetective said:

.

Apparently the last Capitol breach was by the British in 1814.

Even George Bush is calling this an insurrection.

Was it? I don't think so. The 1954 United States Capitol shooting was an attack on March 1, 1954, by four Puerto Rican nationalists; they shot 30 rounds from semi-automatic pistols from the Ladies' Gallery (a balcony for visitors) of the House of Representatives chamber in the United States Capitol. They wanted to highlight their desire for Puerto Rican independence from US rule. 

George Bush .. what a joke. The National Guard would have cleared these jokers in 15 minutes.

US media are treating the 1814 incident, when the building was burnt, as the last breach. I assume as security was breached and there was forced entry. The 1954 incident seems to be people who were let in by security to the viewing gallery, so presumably why they are not counting it as a breach. 

OK, fair enough.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Sorry mate but you're wrong. The Mayor of DC mobilised the National Guard - just not enough of them. They will be on the streets tomorrow.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-04/urging-calm-dc-mayor-calls-in-national-guard-for-protests

The article you link to from Jan 4 2021 says the following: 

"Now with downtown D.C. businesses boarding up their windows, Mayor Muriel Bowser has requested a limited National Guard deployment to help bolster the Metropolitan Police Department. During a press conference on Monday, Bowser asked that local area residents stay away from downtown D.C., and avoid confrontations with anyone who is “looking for a fight.” But, she warned, “we will not allow people to incite violence, intimidate our residents or cause destruction in our city.”

According to a U.S. defense official, Bowser put in a request on New Year’s Eve to have Guard members on the streets from Tuesday to Thursday to help with the protests. The official said the additional forces will be used for traffic control and other assistance but they will not be armed or wearing body armor. Congress is meeting this week to certify the Electoral College results, and Trump has refused to concede while whipping up support for protests."

Note: requested, not mobilized. The District of Columbia has no governor. The mayor is head of governance for the DC. Her request goes to the President who then delegates downwards to the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Army. So the decision to mobilize the DC National Guard can't come from the mayor.  

Governors on the other hand can receive requests and mobilize their own National Guard as Ralph Northam is doing. 

https://twitter.com/GovernorVA/status/1346916716614451207

As for the rest of the thread.. nah. Wrong in that regard as well.