Modern attenuators: HELP!!!!!

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  • ICBM said:
    The Marshall Powerbrake is still the one I would go for with any Marshall amp. I haven’t tried most of the new ones but the Marshall works on a different principle to any of the others, including all the new ones as far as I know.

    It’s very frustrating that they stopped making it - apparently it was too expensive to produce, but given that there’s nothing else like it on the market they could have just put the price up. Luckily they’re not too rare or expensive second hand.

    It doesn’t have any other features that more modern ones do, it’s just a straight attenuator - although it can actually be used as a dummy load with a line out, if you need that... set it to one click above zero and use the speaker output.
    Another vote for the Powerbrake if you can get hold of one.
    I've used mine for years with 20 & 30 watt Marshalls - The tone is incredible - maybe you loose a *tiny* bit of treble, but I still have to turn down treble & presence anyway to suit. 
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    edited January 2021
    It’s looking like I may pull the trigger on the Two Notes Torpedo reload 

    Finding a lot in threads online from Marshall users saying it works well with them 
    Are you actually aware of what it is?  Their marketing is more than a bit sneaky.  

    It’s a reactive load that reduces the amp signal to line level, then feeds this through an internal solid state power amp and to your speakers.  Unlike a regular attenuator you can’t just use this to knock a silly loud amp down a bit for a small gig.

    id say go for one if your priority is bedroom levels, 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    John_A said:

    It’s a reactive load that reduces the amp signal to line level, then feeds this through an internal solid state power amp and to your speakers.  Unlike a regular attenuator you can’t just use this to knock a silly loud amp down a bit for a small gig.
    You can, but it's not going to be quite the same as simply diverting a proportion of the power to a load - what a convention *actual* attenuator does.

    There are now quite a lot of these "attenuators" which are really dummy load/re-amp boxes - the Fryette does use a valve power amp, most others I know of are solid-state. While it's true that they can be used to do the same job, they are *not* attenuators in the strict sense and I agree that they shouldn't be marketed as such. They do also have an advantage over a conventional/true attenuator, in that you can run effects in between the load and the re-amp, which can be useful for some things - but it's important to realise that what comes out of the speaker is not actually from your amp, it's a different amp and it won't necessarily react the same dynamically even if the tone is close.

    There's a simple way to tell which is which - if it's got a power cable, it's not an attenuator, it's a re-amp.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    @ICBM you can’t because the built in amp really isn’t loud enough to gig with unlike the Fryette or the Boss
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    John_A said:
    @ICBM you can’t because the built in amp really isn’t loud enough to gig with unlike the Fryette or the Boss
    Ah... I assumed from the product description that it was capable of putting out up to the same amount of power as the input - ie up to 150W, with the minimum load listed as 4 ohms. But in the manual it says only 70W into 4 ohms, 50W into 8 ohms, and down to as low as 25W into 16 ohms - I could see that not being enough to gig with, given that it's solid state.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • I no longer gig so it’s for home use only 
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  • tekbowtekbow Frets: 1687
    I think 50w at 8ohms for -3db would be plenty for a lot of gigs.

    In any case its marketed as a Studio tool.

    I don't see what's misleading? There's Mention in the manual of a wide band power amp.

    I think the whole distinction of these types of attenuators vs soaking a portion if the power is semantics tbh.


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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    I've still got an old Tom scholz power soak somewhere. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    tekbow said:

    I think the whole distinction of these types of attenuators vs soaking a portion if the power is semantics tbh.
    I don't.

    It's an important distinction. Marketing it as something which it can perform a similar function to but is completely different in operation isn't really right. Imagine if someone built a modelling amp and marketed it as a valve amp because it can perform a similar function - would that be OK?

    A dummy load and reamplifier in a box is not an attenuator, if anything it's an amplifier.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    edited January 2021
    ICBM said:
    John_A said:
    @ICBM you can’t because the built in amp really isn’t loud enough to gig with unlike the Fryette or the Boss
    Ah... I assumed from the product description that it was capable of putting out up to the same amount of power as the input - ie up to 150W, with the minimum load listed as 4 ohms. But in the manual it says only 70W into 4 ohms, 50W into 8 ohms, and down to as low as 25W into 16 ohms - I could see that not being enough to gig with, given that it's solid state.
    Not quite sure where you found that info, but it’s the website and marketing blurb that probably led to the assumption, it may be in the manual somewhere, but they really don’t make it clear.  It’s like the Two Notes Captor reactive load which has a low power output, I’m sure most people assume it’s part of the reactive load circuit where it’s a separate resistive attenuator that sounds not very good at all.

    something like the slash head, a common matching cab would be a 16 ohm Marshall 4x12, 25 watts would not likely be enough for the type of music where you were using a head like that.

    Totally agree it’s marketed as a studio tool, but the details they leave out of the material can make people assume wrongly, just like I did and ICBM

    Heres the two notes page for the reload

    https://www.two-notes.com/torpedo-reload


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    John_A said:

    Not quite sure where you found that info, but it’s the website and marketing blurb that probably led to the assumption, it may be in the manual somewhere, but they really don’t make it clear.
    It did take a bit of looking to find, they certainly don't make it part of the main marketing description.

    https://wiki.two-notes.com/doku.php?id=torpedo_reload:torpedo_reload_user_s_manual - Section 5.7 Technical Data

    John_A said:

    something like the slash head, a common matching cab would be a 16 ohm Marshall 4x12, 25 watts would not likely be enough for the type of music where you were using a head like that.
    No, especially as given that it's solid-state it won't be as perceptively loud as a 25W valve amp either, even through a 4x12".

    I'm sure it's a great-sounding piece of kit, but not making it clear in the main description that the output is lower power inevitably comes across that they're hiding something, which they shouldn't be.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • tekbowtekbow Frets: 1687
    John_A said:
    ICBM said:
    John_A said:
    @ICBM you can’t because the built in amp really isn’t loud enough to gig with unlike the Fryette or the Boss
    Ah... I assumed from the product description that it was capable of putting out up to the same amount of power as the input - ie up to 150W, with the minimum load listed as 4 ohms. But in the manual it says only 70W into 4 ohms, 50W into 8 ohms, and down to as low as 25W into 16 ohms - I could see that not being enough to gig with, given that it's solid state.
    Not quite sure where you found that info, but it’s the website and marketing blurb that probably led to the assumption, it may be in the manual somewhere, but they really don’t make it clear.  It’s like the Torpedo reactive load which has a low power output, I’m sure most people assume it’s part of the reactive load circuit where it’s a separate resistive attenuator that sounds no very good at all.

    something like the slash head, a common matching cab would be a 16 ohm Marshall 4x12, 25 watts would not likely be enough for the type of music where you were using a head like that.

    Totally agree it’s marketed as a studio tool, but the details they leave out of the material can make people assume wrongly, just like I did and ICBM

    Heres the two notes page for the reload

    https://www.two-notes.com/torpedo-reload



    You mean the captor is a resistive load on the attenuation side?
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    edited January 2021
    tekbow said:



    You mean the captor is a resistive load on the attenuation side?
    Yes.  Again here’s the page which make no mention of the fact 

    https://www.two-notes.com/torpedo-captor

    edit, yes, sorry see what you mean I said Torpedo

    Dont get me wrong I think the products are great it’s just the marketing that’s less than transparent that winds me up.
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Just my own application---
    I am using a Marshall Class 5 head, into a 4x12, at home.
    I use it as a clean pedal platform, and have had good results with a Weber mass 150, which is ex BBC.
    I say had, because recently I have experienced a problem with the low / mid control.These have 2 large variable resistor / speaker motor type controls which are supposed to allow attenuation to either low / mid or mid / high, with switches for bypass and low / high range.
    This was working fine until I tried to adjust it recently, and now the low / high knob has jammed.
    I like to use the Class 5 with volume up to a point where the power section is starting to work, and there's not a lot of options for tone shaping, so it is important for me to keep the highs, I liked the Weber for the adjustability.
    My fallback is a Marshall PB, and with a few tweaks, I think it is just as effective.
    It was my first attenuator, bought to try and tame a 50w mk3 JCM 900 in the home, which I could not get to work, even with the JCM set to 25w. The tone suck was noticeable, which led me into the Class 5 route, I have 4 of them, 2 stock and 2 RAT modded, both heads and combos.
    I realise the amps I am using are nothing like your Slash, and we are using attenuators for very different sounds, there is no real solution to the effect of high volume, on both valve and speakers, although I would expect you can get closer with MV amps.
    My journey stopped there when I began to use IRs for recording, and studio sounds, it just seems easier. I can take a line out from my RAT modded Class 5, but using a DI and amp sim is good enough for me.
    Another possible route, is to use an ISO cab, which is something I would like to try one day.
    Again, this is not a solution to the volume problem, as this would be a mic / monitor situation, but at least it would be the true tone of the amp, and I think something like the Boss tube amp expander is the most effective device at this point, for all uses.

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  • Torpedo Reload arrived this morning. The Slash amp is delayed via UPS COVID issues. Should be here tomorrow 

    So have tried it with my Synergy module rig and so far I’m very impressed. Have managed to get the power amp section wound up and the reload is doing a great job. No tone loss that I can hear 
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  • russpmrusspm Frets: 436
    I've been trying the Fryette PS2 with the Lazy J 20 with excellent results. Very transparent and the impact on the tremolo unit is far less than when using the VAC on the Lazy J 20 when the power is dialled down low.
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  • I have used both fryette power station and marshall power brake live with my band. The Fryette has more clarity especially at more levels of attenuation but it seems to be softer......maybe because this is reamping. The power brake has more punch and i therefore prefer it to the fryette. Just my personal taste though.


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  • tekbowtekbow Frets: 1687

    Torpedo Reload arrived this morning. The Slash amp is delayed via UPS COVID issues. Should be here tomorrow 

    So have tried it with my Synergy module rig and so far I’m very impressed. Have managed to get the power amp section wound up and the reload is doing a great job. No tone loss that I can hear 

    Glad you're getting along with it. I like mine a lot :+1: 
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  • LeeCMBLeeCMB Frets: 12
    I did a bit of research in to this recently myself, and although I've not tried any in person, my current pick is the Tone King Iron Man 2. There's some great demos on YouTube. Might be worth checking out. Good luck. 
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  • Benm39Benm39 Frets: 696
    I've a Tone King Iron Man 2 mini, which can handle amps upto 30w and it's great (and not exactly mini in size either lol)
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