70s MIJ guitars - what's your experience

Matthutch

Hi all,

I've been delving into the world of 70s Japanese guitars - primarily the Martin dreadnought copies ('lawsuit' guitars as some people call them). There were so many different brands/factories making stuff and there's lots of debate about who made what, under what name, what had solid woods, what didn't. Plenty of them come up for sale and I'm toying with the idea of buying one.

What I'm really keen to find out is what your specific experiences have been of these guitars, both good and bad. What have you owned, played, sold, worked on, regretted letting go of (or regretted buying!). Happy to hear anyone's opinion on anything related but I'm particularly interested in hearing from people who've played (or currently play) one of these guitars. 

Thanks,
Matt

Epsilon

I've tried a few, including:

- Takamine Martin dread copy
- Kiso Suzuki Guild D-55 copy
- Yairi of some description
- Ibanez Concord

I don't think you can lump in all the 70s MIJ or 'lawsuit' acoustics together really, they should be taken on a case-by-case basis. The guitars I've tried have ranged from not great (Suzuki, Ibanez), to Ok (Takamine) to good (Yairi). Other than the Yairi, I don't think that most modern day mid-range production guitars would have much trouble seeing off the others I've tried in terms of quality and sound. I think most of them were laminate back and sides and some had laminate tops too.

I've always found MIJ electrics from the same era punch above their weight much more than acoustics.

One thing I do like about them is the history - I enjoy playing them as they were a big part of guitar development in that era and have lots of stories to tell. So it depends if you want it primarily as an interesting part of your collection or as a player.

As with all old acoustics, you'll want to check neck angle, saddle height and action to see if it needs a neck reset.

Emiel

I concur with everything Epsilion's said.

I've got a 1976 Tokai Cat's Eyes CE600. Then and now, Tokai has entry level guitars to really expensive ones, ranging from model 200 to 1500, which is 20.000 yen to 150.000 (roughly 200 to 1500 pounds). Mine is a mid level Martin D28 style guitar and sounds and plays really nice actually. Not like the real deal but close enough for me.

A 'problem' with any 'vintage' guitar is that people seem to think they are worth a lot, regardless of the actual quality. So look and buy carefully!

Matthutch

Thanks both. Yep, I do wonder whether I'm better off looking at more modern used guitars from the likes of Eastman etc. I do like the idea of the history of the 70s models, and I know there are some really good ones out there, but, as you say, playability comes before history! Also, at this point, it's almost impossible to play anything or see it in person so buying an acoustic sight unseen is a gamble (much more so that buying a bolt on neck electric for example).

What I'm essentially after is a spruce topped dreadnought. I have a cedar dread but I do a lot of flatpicking and I'm after more of a classic bluegrass sound for fiddle tunes (ideally without spending a fortune, hence the interest in the MIJ models as they're still, for the most part, relatively affordable).

Good advice. Thank you.

Andy79

Epsilon 

As with all old acoustics, you'll want to check neck angle, saddle height and action to see if it needs a neck reset.

I’d go along with all the above especially this point. You just can’t take peoples word for it either in the majority of cases. Most all 70s guitars I have had have either had a set or badly need one. 

Trouble is, if the idea is in your head you are probably going to end up seeing it through. 

I once had Daion which was very good but think that has a Cedar top also?

ICBM

Contrary to what a lot of online sellers seem to believe, Japanese guitars from the 1970s run the entire range of quality points from Tiesco/Woolworths plywood junk with poor fretting and unusable vibrato units, to Yamaha SG2000s and Ibanez Artists... in other words there is absolutely no correlation between place and time of manufacture, and quality of the product, at all.

Even Martin-style Dreadnought copies alone - none of which were ever the subject of a lawsuit as far as I know - cover pretty much that range of quality.

impmann

I've just acquired a CF Mountain dread that apes a Martin pretty closely (right down to the logo/name!).

Its a nice old thing with a solid Spruce top and rosewood sides. Is it as rich sounding as a Martin? Probably not, but then it was a tenth of the price. Is it a nice strummy acoustic? Yes - and it records really nicely. Plus it plays *VERY* well. Is it a collector's piece? Hmmm, maybe, maybe not. I'm happy with the price I paid for it but I don't think its worth *that* much more as a guitar and I don't see it as an appreciating asset. I'm not 100% sure its a keeper yet.

There's a lot of BS spoken about old guitars and old Jap guitars, as @ICBM quite rightly states, can be incredibly variable in quality - and no amount of age improves some of them.

jakeolly

  My first decent acoustic in ‘74 was an Eko Ranger vi - played great, and was bomb proof, poly finish and heavily braced and thick timbers, Second was an Ibanez Artist, bought by my dear old dad for a kings ransom. It looked like a D28 , beautiful but again built and finished too heavy 
also had a Mountain, which  went missing in a studio

Moleman

I have a Yamaha FG180 (unsure of exact year of manufacture) which I really like. The other 1970’s era Japanese guitars I’ve owned have all been electrics, Yamaha SG1500 and SA2000 - both superbly built and playing/ sounding.

I think that the main thing that would prevent me from buying a Japanese built (or any country of manufacture) acoustic from the 1970’s era, would be concern over potential neck set/ bridge pull-up issues, etc. Also magazine articles, forums (and especially online auction sellers) have hyped up these guitars to the point where the asking prices don’t make sense any more.

Why not instead look at some of the more recent instruments, such as a Yamaha LL400 or LL500 from the 1990’s and 2000’s? I have one and would put it’s handcrafted build, playability and sound up against any big US name dreadnaught acoustic up to around £1,500 in the new or secondhand market.

Moleman

jakeolly said:

  My first decent acoustic in ‘74 was an Eko Ranger vi - played great, and was bomb proof, poly finish and heavily braced and thick timbers, Second was an Ibanez Artist, bought by my dear old dad for a kings ransom. It looked like a D28 , beautiful but again built and finished too heavy 
also had a Mountain, which  went missing in a studio

Yes, I remember playing my Dad’s old Eko Ranger 6 - the original street fighting acoustic guitar (with a bolt on neck)! I recall loving the feel of the wenge fingerboard. I was always under the impression that EKO was an Italian company though?

Kittyfrisk

Yep, EKO's like the Ranger were made in Italy up to 1985 when they ceased trading. Recent reissues are made in the Czech Republic.

Matthutch

Moleman said:

I have a Yamaha FG180 (unsure of exact year of manufacture) which I really like. The other 1970’s era Japanese guitars I’ve owned have all been electrics, Yamaha SG1500 and SA2000 - both superbly built and playing/ sounding.

I think that the main thing that would prevent me from buying a Japanese built (or any country of manufacture) acoustic from the 1970’s era, would be concern over potential neck set/ bridge pull-up issues, etc. Also magazine articles, forums (and especially online auction sellers) have hyped up these guitars to the point where the asking prices don’t make sense any more.

Why not instead look at some of the more recent instruments, such as a Yamaha LL400 or LL500 from the 1990’s and 2000’s? I have one and would put it’s handcrafted build, playability and sound up against any big US name dreadnaught acoustic up to around £1,500 in the new or secondhand market.

Thanks. That's really useful - it's not necessarily that I'm after a 70s guitar, I'd just like a quality spruce topped dread for bluegrass flatpicking that isn't too expensive. I was thinking a 70s MIJ guitar might be an affordable option. The general opinion seems to be that it can be with the right guitar but the whole MIJ thing is getting a bit over-hyped

ICBM

Matthutch said:

That's really useful - it's not necessarily that I'm after a 70s guitar, I'd just like a quality spruce topped dread for bluegrass flatpicking that isn't too expensive. I was thinking a 70s MIJ guitar might be an affordable option. The general opinion seems to be that it can be with the right guitar but the whole MIJ thing is getting a bit over-hyped

Look at Guilds - they don't retain value as well as Martins and Gibson for some reason. A 70s/80s/90s US-made one won't be 'cheap', but will be a lot more affordable than the Big Two, and very well made.

If you need cheaper than that, 80s Martin Shenandoahs - Japanese-made parts, some (but not all I think) assembled in the US - are not at all bad, although they're only solid top, not back and sides.

There are also some more random - but rare - possibilities like Vega, which were owned by Martin in the 1970s and made some Martin-style Dreadnoughts under licence in the Netherlands. I had one, which was basically a D-18 - I can't remember why I sold it, but not because it was no good...

bugileman

I collect Japanese acoustic guitar's. I started many years ago with the more generic mass produced, but found as time went on quality was more important to me. I gradually sold off the cheaper ones, to acquire better guitar's. I have now around forty high end acoustic guitar's (not including the electrics) ranging from original L series Yamaha, K.Yairi, Takamine and names you'd never heard of! 

It's a passion that has taken years and now I would be hard pressed to find replacements if I sold them. 

There is alot of misinformation out there, but gems can still be found if you know what to look for. 

Cranky

I own two such guitars.  A red label Yamaha FG-180 made in Japan and a 1979 FG-340 (not a 340 II) made in Taiwan.  Both were bought on a whim online during an interesting time for me, which I would not do again.

Both guitars have outstanding tonal quality and volume.  The 180 arrived with a slightly warped neck and needed new frets, but sounded great otherwise and certainly was great earlier in its life.  The 340 is basically immaculate, it plays and sounds fantastic but I like the tone of the 180 a little better.  I did have to put a little shim under the 340's worn-down saddle (I haven't yet figured out how to pick out a new saddle for it), and I wouldn't put anything other than light strings on it.  It's best as a strummer, nothing too crazy, but I play it fairly frequently and enjoy every moment of it. 

I also hear good things about vintage Yamaki acoustics, but I've never seen one in person and don't want to risk another online purchase.