How do you approach writing parts?

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HaychHaych Frets: 5594
Particularly solo parts.  Just trying to see if a different approach to my own might be beneficial.

I don't "do" music particularly well.  If I'm writing a song then I'll have the basic parts of the arrangement sorted, I'll know where verses, choruses etc all sit and I'll know where I want any instrumental bits to go, if there are any.

But when it comes to actually writing the instrumental parts themselves I have a real hard time.  Improvising has always been something of a real struggle to me.

I'd be interested to learn how others tackle writing solo parts.  Do you write the parts in a deliberate fashion, say like Randy Rhoads used to, or do you just wing it and see what comes out the other end?  Or a bit of both?

TIA

There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    edited January 2021
    Winging it, almost always.

    But I think there's a distinction to be made...

    You talk about having the arrangement sorted, but then talk about writing parts. I've done similar things too, but it's a bit of a mental construct - the arrangement is like a structure or a load of scaffolding that you hold in your head to help you understand the shape of your unfinished idea, until the parts are written. It's a way of pretending to yourself that you've got more than you actually do, until you work out what's going to fill the space

    The end product is the parts, which come together to make the song. The parts are what the listener hears.

    If you've got the scaffolding but are struggling to flesh it out with an instrument part, sometimes it's good to break the scaffolding back down. I've been there, sometimes it means you've taken an idea to a place where it's maybe too rigid or inflexible to fit your creativity, and it's best to dismantle it, figure out what it was that inspired you, maybe add a fresh dimension (tempo change, different key, different groove, giving a particular instrument a different job) and starting again.

    So... I've been in that place loads, where I've left empty spaces in a song structure and then struggle to fill them, and there's lots of ways to get round that from smoking a joint if you're that way inclined (I'm not, I've worked with plenty who are and if it works it's all cool with me!) to just moving on and waiting for the day to come when the moment of inspiration hits you, to just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks, to working bit by bit - iteratively slotting in phrases and little moments then working out how they'd join up. That's what I think is "problem solving" creativity rather than "Blank page" creativity where you suddenly get something where there was nothing before.


    Edited to add... the hardest bit is getting out of your own way. So many times in bands I've been in, someone else has played something awesome for 5 seconds then moved on with no flicker of recognition in their eyes, and it's been up to me to say "stop, go back, what was that you just did...?". They've been too busy playing to listen.

    And on the other side of it, there are times I've invested incredible amounts of time and effort in something and it's been very hard to admit that it's just not as good as I wanted it to be. That can be a hard pill to swallow.
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4941
    My method works reasonably well for the type of music, country and Irish, that we play.  If a band has a violin or Uilleann pipes, the intro usually is a line or two from the song on that instrument and then the singer begins.  Simple and it works.  I do something similar on guitar but often vary it using octaves and thirds to add interest to the sound.  Not very exciting but it gets the job done.  But do tab out ideas that work or don't work as it is very easy to forget a run or walk up that could be a useful riff or melody.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23906
    When I'm properly writing I always record. Never know when a flash of inspiration will hit.
    Then I listen back, see what I like and maybe combine solo ideas from different takes.

    Then learn it from my improvised versions into something more composed.

    For main structure of the tune I get inspired by drums a lot. I'll often put together a cliche arrangement in EZD - Intro / Verse 1 / Chorus / Verse 2 / Chorus / Middle 8 / Verse 3 / Chorus / Outro - type thing but really mess around with the drum patterns.

    Then play along to those patterns in a variety of keys and tempos to see what happens. The length of each part is irrelevant at this point as that can be adjusted easily when lyric ideas come along.

    My instrumental demos are often very short to start with and then get up to proper song length when the lyrics start turning up.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    The way I see it the role of any instrumental part is to add to the vocal, even if the vocal hasn't started yet. So it might be creating tension or perhaps a sense of melancholy or aggression ... depending on the song and the lyrical content. 

    When it comes to writing a guitar solo as a piece in it's own right though you need the notes to gel with the underlining chord sequence. I learnt this from studying classic solo's like Hotel California and Time. This is something you can teach very easily. If you target either the 3rd, 5th or root note of the underlining chord it will sound melodic. So as an example if you are soloing over an Em minor chord and it changes to a Gmaj then target a bend up to a B (the third note in Gmaj) at point the chord changes or release an E down to a D.

    Most of the boring solo's people play come about because they are playing from common patterns and muscle memory, rather than thinking about the underlining chords and what notes to choose to add the best melody. Now you can compose a solo in your head that will fit great and then find it on the guitar, I do that too but you will generally find when you do the part is obeying the basic rules of the notes targeting the juicy notes in the underling chord as it changes. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • There's always "old faithful" - the pentatonic. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th of the scale. After that it's whatever sounds good to you.
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5594
    I suppose my own approach is a bit hap-hazard.

    Like I say I'm not very musical in the same way that other people are, I struggle with it but I enjoy it when I get it right otherwise I would have given up by now.

    If I have a part to construct I'll usually just listen to the progression a lot while doing other things and let it sink in.  Normally I'll be able to hear ideas in my head.  Sometimes they translate to actual playing, sometimes they don't.

    When I have one idea that works I'll go with it and then see what naturally follows.  Sometimes this approach works.

    Other times I'll just hit record and play whatever comes into my head on the spot.  Normally that gets deleted very quickly but I listen back to each take and if there's a phrase or lick in there that I like I'll keep it, add it to the pile and throw the rest away.

    So not exactly a linear working pattern.

    The piece I'm working on at the moment is pushing me out of my comfort zone, and that's good, and while most of it falls into E natural minor I'm trying to think less about scales and more about the underlying chords I'm playing over.

    It's working really well as I'm less focused on shapes on the fretboard and the natural mechanical response of muscle memory around those shapes and I'm actually processing a cognitive response to what sounds good and thinking stuff like, "well that's an E minor 9th, I like the way that landing on the F# gives it a bit of tension and dissonance."

    It's a painful process though.  It's taken me about two days to write 16 bars I feel happy with and I have about twice that to go.




    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    Set your cycle length.
    record multiple takes of guitar solo/melody over that cycle... comp a decent solo/melody out of the best bits... then learn it!!!!
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 1809
    I always start with pentatonic stuff first. Then I add the notes of the mode the chords are dictating etc or at least be aware of them. Fiddle around a bit for some ideas. I then put the guitar down so not in my hands and sing the solo out loud over the backing track / song. You’ll discover more ideas and pick up the guitar and play adding to the previously found ideas. You will get get some lovely sounding guitar lines I’m sure of it. Works for me :)

    Hope it helps. 

    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    I always start with pentatonic stuff first. Then I add the notes of the mode the chords are dictating etc or at least be aware of them. Fiddle around a bit for some ideas. I then put the guitar down so not in my hands and sing the solo out loud over the backing track / song. You’ll discover more ideas and pick up the guitar and play adding to the previously found ideas. You will get get some lovely sounding guitar lines I’m sure of it. Works for me :)

    Hope it helps. 

    Singing is a brilliant method
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • It's always good to slow things down and write out a solo either by singing or by working through the chord changes. It helps you to learn some new vocabulary as well instead of playing the same muscle memory fuelled licks that you always play.
    It's always harder to do and often doesn't sound as spontaneous but it will help you play better, more melodic lead parts in the long run.
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