Pedalboard switchers - some questions

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NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
edited January 2021 in FX
I've recently dismantled my mega-midi-modelling board, which had an Atomic Amplifire at it's heart, with a midi controlled DB11 Loop Expander under the board, which switched external pedals on preset changes.


I'm now running a much more traditional, Pedaltrain Nano+ sized board with seven (yes, they are squeezed in) into an amp. I love the simplicity and portability, but I miss being able to switch several pedals on / off with a single button press. 


My loop switcher keeps looking at me, wanting to be used again. I could use it alongside something like a Boss ES5 or MS3, or DB11 Swtich Doctor to control all of my pedals. But then I'm back to a massive heavy board again.

Which leads me to wonder are loop switching boards the worst of both worlds - complex and heavy, hard to program and still prone to failing patch leads, power supply issues etc. Or are they the best of both worlds?

Perhaps I would I be better off with an HX FX, but analogue pedals etc......
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  • In my opinion a lot of it is down to how quick and comfortable you are with your loop switcher of choice. I have a Boss ES5 and it is very good, but when it comes to setting up presets, I am much faster with my Helix Floor. I guess because with a loop switcher and some pedals, I need to remember how to use the pedals and the switcher, and factor in all of their individual quirks, whereas with the Helix it's got one thoroughly thought out workflow that I can tap into.

    Not saying I don't like my ES5+single stomps, because I do, and on balance it sounds better than the Helix for certain kinds of things. But the Helix is just quick and easy.

    Because I've been at home, I'm not really using either of them right now. I've got a Strymon DIG and an MXR M300 Reverb going into the front of my amp, and that's good enough for me right now.

    Bye!

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    I could never make loop switchers work for me personally - over the years I've had various ones ranging from a simple dumb switching strip to a programmable one to rack rigs (Voodoo Lab Ground Control & GCX switchers, then Rocktron All Access and RJM switchers)

    The first gig after I ditched my rack rig and threw a basic board together it was bliss, and I was sure then that I'd rather deal with tap-dancing on pedals to gain the spontaneity and freedom of going straight for each pedal's stomp switch - picking the pedals is part of the performance.

    Yes, I absolutely can and did do that with the programmable loopers - one-switch-per-effect modes etc - but at that point what's the point of all the extra gear and weight?

    If I was doing a tour, a big production etc, where the extra gear was justified and there was a lot of consistency from show to show, then I'd use a switching system for the enhanced reliability/ redundancy, but anything less than that and I'd rather just rock up with a board that doesn't weigh more than it has to and jump on pedals.

    Of course, everyone's styles and needs are different!
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  • sgosdensgosden Frets: 1993
    I'd agree with Drew that it comes down to workflow and what you're hoping to achieve. 

    I'm also very used to helix UI so find it easy to create a patch and use it on the fly when writing. 

    I've got an ES5 and real amp rig that sounds "better", but takes me ages to programme. 

    If gigging ever gets going again I'll likely just run a helix (or even stomp) for most gigs, and save the full rig for venues that I know I'll get a decent sound check at. But both of them will be running premade presets/patches/snapshots whatever the equivalent it. 

    I think tap dancing at a gig is the worst. 

    I guess it comes down to your preference for using it. Or why not have both? Keep the ampfire for your single button pushes, and sacrifice that last 5% of sound. Keep the mini board for playing in situations where it doesn't actually matter if the changes of sound aren't perfect.  
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  • Depends what you want. I have a Boss ES-8 switcher with all my favourite pedals. I got it because wanted to avoid tap dancing and I'm the only guitarist in a three piece and also needed to cover backing vocals. Once  my sounds were programmed in with what loops I wanted, what order for the pedals to go in, what midi channels and patches for the Mobius and the Nemesis etc etc, I didn't really need to do much else apart from tweaks.

    When I got a Boss GT-1000 for ampless gigs, I essentially recreated all my ES-8 patches and workflow because that's what works for me. I could actually have started from new, but I'm primarily a live guitarist and it's all about efficiency and I had already worked out what was fastest for me.

    Building the patches is all about getting the basics for each general sound right and then copying the variations you need for additional sounds into other patches. I've probably forgotten a lot of the programming techniques with the ES-8, but I'm sure, given 10 minutes, it would all come back to me quite easily.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26460
    edited January 2021
    NelsonP said:

    Which leads me to wonder are loop switching boards the worst of both worlds - complex and heavy, hard to program and still prone to failing patch leads, power supply issues etc. Or are they the best of both worlds?

    I often think about this, but not only are these things true...you end up with something insanely expensive sat on the floor in the exact spot that the singer or bassist wants to jump into.

    So, for all of those reasons, whenever I start thinking about a switched pedal rig, that train of thought always ends up at a rack of some sort.

    For what it's worth, I now have that rack. Which, amazingly enough, still weighs less than the amp it's replacing.
    <space for hire>
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  • ClassicClassic Frets: 40
    I battled the challenge of a programmable board and the limitations of instant access, should I want or need it. Then I stumbled upon the ability to have BOTH.

    I now have most pedals that are completely programmable but also immediately accessible.

    the Whammy DT or V is midi programmable but has all the ability to be switched on/off manually without inhibiting the next midi programme.

    jackson audio bloom v2 and Broke. arrow are the same.

    I’m much happier now.
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Bumping this thread for further thoughts.

    Loop switcher or not?
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    edited October 2021
    You looked at the Gigrig quartermaster? They have individual loops but have a flip flop setting which means that some loops can be set to click once to change from A-B or A-C, B-A etc.

     
    This board has three main flip flop loops:
    -Fuzz>drive>delay
    -compressor>OD>verb
    -OD>delay

    And the rest (mod,delay, room verb) are switched on in addition where need be.


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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    edited October 2021
    Can you explain how flip flops work? I can't get my head around it.

    Nice board BTW. This is mine currently...

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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    Flip flop: Eg you have loop 1 & 2 w FF clicked in. If you hit loop 2 that loop is active and loop 1 switches off. Wheras usually you would have to click loop 1 once to switch off and the loop 2 once to enable. 
    So you can have 4 one click loops to select between or just normal series stacking where you see fit. 
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  • slackerslacker Frets: 2216
    I picked up a gigrig midi 8 for not a lot of cash. I generally use a drive, a boost, a reverb and a synth. I sing as well so a switcher makes it easy. I would leave the reverb on all the time and juggle with the others. The midi 8 replaces the boost and I have simple patches for clean dirt boost and synth, some with reverb and some without.
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Hmm, this could work....

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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Or this?

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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    edited October 2021
    I finally (after being asked on here!), got around to using my Disaster Area DPC-5 as it's meant to be used. It can switch both my amp channels, switches 3 midi pedals (can do 4), and also has 5 loops for normal pedals. Initially the programming looked difficult, after the first one however I realised it was ridiculously straightforward. I can recommend it wholeheartedly, it's small and can be used to just access the looper on the Timeline too. 

    I fricking hate tap dancing and now I have a three channel amp it's another button so it's kind of easier to have it as a preset. If you get fed up at a gig or something goes wrong, a simple press and hold brings you back to manual control too. 



    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • I used to gig with a big board of real pedals and a Mooer GEC9 switcher. Worked fine, never broke down but very heavy and took up a lot of floor space. I've got a mate who loves his Boss ES-8 and he also has a big, heavy board. I'd say they are the worst of all worlds for live use unless you have a roadie and a large stage - which seems to be where most of these sorts of boards are being used, as far as I can tell. In the end, I felt that going back to tap dancing and dropping the switcher (to get a smaller, lighter board) was a better bet for me. Which I then didn't do, buying an HX FX instead. Once you've found the sounds you like, snapshots are great! 

    I've never tried a Quartermaster-style solution, but for some music genres and bands I can see the appeal and how appropriate they'd be. 

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  • This is an endless conundrum for me too.

    This was the closest I ever got:


    But ultimately, I did not really enjoy using the Boss ES switcher. I have kept it for now because it makes a good general purpose midi switcher, but I find programming the thing a bit boring and long-winded. I *think* I would prefer the GigRig G3, but it's an expensive experiment!

    As you can see, the board really wasn't any bigger than having a Helix on the floor, and I had room for a few more pedals if I needed to.

    Anyway... it didn't stick...

    Bye!

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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    edited October 2021
    I've never had a board issue at a gig that wasn't solved by a power cycle, I might not be 90's Metallica but I did a fair few gigs before. The other thing with a board, is say one pedal goes down or even the DPC5, I can switch pedals around and still run full manual. If your Helix for example decides to take a shit, what's your fallback? 

    The reality is either option, thoroughly rehearsed and used through practice to the gig should be as reliable, there's no reason why the Helix or a board is likely to breakdown. So it's kind of a moot point for me that argument I'd say, I'd rather lose an overdrive that's playing up, than have to lose my whole board in the case of a Stomp or HXFX. 

    The weight doesn't bother me anymore than carrying my amp head and cab.

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • DopesickDopesick Frets: 1507
    This is often something I can relate to. I have a Pedaltrain Classic JR (actually, the older PT-JR which is an inch shorter) but I have still managed to fit on a Boss ES-5 with about eight other pedals. I am sure that sooner or later I will move up to something like a Classic 1.

    I often wonder just ditching the switcher and going back to an even smaller board with the same amount of pedals, but the ES-5 just makes things so much easier and I much prefer the convenience rather than using a smaller board and making an arse out of myself tapdancing.
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  • pedalopedalo Frets: 178
    Flip flop: Eg you have loop 1 & 2 w FF clicked in. If you hit loop 2 that loop is active and loop 1 switches off. Wheras usually you would have to click loop 1 once to switch off and the loop 2 once to enable. 
    So you can have 4 one click loops to select between or just normal series stacking where you see fit. 
    I have a QMX8 and was sure that I could only flip flop between two positions. Have I misunderstood?!
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    @pedalo said:
    Flip flop: Eg you have loop 1 & 2 w FF clicked in. If you hit loop 2 that loop is active and loop 1 switches off. Wheras usually you would have to click loop 1 once to switch off and the loop 2 once to enable. 
    So you can have 4 one click loops to select between or just normal series stacking where you see fit. 
    I have a QMX8 and was sure that I could only flip flop between two positions. Have I misunderstood?!
    You can use any switch as a flip flop. I use 3 on my board like this. 
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