Recording guitars.

Tat2dstesh

So I've been writing music while we are stuck in the house and I have a lot of ideas. In fact I have 15 songs written all pretty punky heavy rock type songs. 
Anyway I have been using a multitude of guitar plugins from ampltube 4, guitar rig 5, logics built in amps, ML amp plugins and even considering Plugin alliance stuff. 
So at the minute I have 2 guitar tracks paned left right both playing slightly different things so it got the idea of a 2 guitar band and have some melody lines over the top that pans slightly to the right. 
I want to get the best beefiest guitar sound for the left right paned guitar tracks and wonder if doubling the tracks by copying and pasting in a new track and using a different plugin and amp from what I have at the minute would beef up the sounds and would this be a good idea. 
For the main sounds I'm using amplitube 4 rockerverb with mesa cab and 2 mics panned right and a marshall jcm slash with vintage marshall and 2 mics panned left. 

Any advice would be cool.  

Danny1969

Copy and pasting will only really make it louder ... to get a thicker sound double track it. Play the same part again as tight to the original as you can .

spark240

Agreed...duplicating will do something ...but not what you want ...if you duplicate as an experiment I would use a slight Detune plugin and pay around with EQ ...see what happens.

Jota

Get a 1176 style compressor plugin (the one on guitar rig is great) and stick it in every guitar track.

octatonic

I disagree with using an 1176 plugin.
I sometimes run through 1176 hardware but barely touching it, essentially using the 1176 line amps.
You don't really get that with a plugin though.
I mostly use a Distressor, API 527 or a UA LA2a on electric guitar, if anything.

In terms of duplication of tracks, you can detune the copied version but it is a specific sound (80's).
Better just play it twice and let the natural variation between takes full up the sound.

Remember to high pass the guitar to make room for the bass, I like 80hz for that unless you are playing metal.
Sometimes 120hz, depending on the register.

Bill_S

You can also record the part just once, copy to another track and then nudge the copied track along the timeline very slightly. Pan one track hard right and the other left. 

WiresDreamDisasters

Don't duplicate takes. Will just sound dodgy. Play the same thing twice, or four times. If you go four times (quad-tracking) make sure you bring the gain down on the amp/plugin so it doesn't get too mushy.

I disagree with high-passing on guitars. A high-shelf is better. High-pass filters cause phase shifts further up the spectrum that I think can spoil guitars quite a bit.

Sometimes 2 tracks hard panned and then one with a slightly different tone straight up the middle can work too. But the middle one you bring down in volume so it doesn't clutter the centre.

1176 can work on high-gain guitars, but you could also try a clipper. That can help add a bit more aggression to the guitars as well. But go lightly with it!

Kasalic

I tried the copy and paste, and as everyone else has said, it just makes it louder. I’m not into the high gain stuff, but have you considered a slightly different sound, maybe a different guitar? With crunch and cleaner sounds I have been trying this with some success.

Legionreturns

There's a vocal trick that may be used on guitars. 

Make 6 copies, copies 1 and 2 are tuned up 2 cents and down 2 cents respectively, and panned 2 clicks left and 2 clicks right. 3 and 4 go 4 cents and 4 clicks, but in the opposite directions. 5 and 6 go 6 cents and 6 clicks, again, swapping back to the original directions. 

Then send all 7 tracks to a bus and eq to taste. 

octatonic

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Don't duplicate takes. Will just sound dodgy. Play the same thing twice, or four times. If you go four times (quad-tracking) make sure you bring the gain down on the amp/plugin so it doesn't get too mushy.

I disagree with high-passing on guitars. A high-shelf is better. High-pass filters cause phase shifts further up the spectrum that I think can spoil guitars quite a bit.

Sometimes 2 tracks hard panned and then one with a slightly different tone straight up the middle can work too. But the middle one you bring down in volume so it doesn't clutter the centre.

1176 can work on high-gain guitars, but you could also try a clipper. That can help add a bit more aggression to the guitars as well. But go lightly with it!

I don't find it an issue of you keep the slope gentle.

Good call on a clipper.
Also check this out: https://www.fieldingdsp.com/reviver
I use it a lot on guitars and synths.

Jota

octatonic said:

I disagree with using an 1176 plugin.
I sometimes run through 1176 hardware but barely touching it, essentially using the 1176 line amps.
You don't really get that with a plugin though.
I mostly use a Distressor, API 527 or a UA LA2a on electric guitar, if anything.

In terms of duplication of tracks, you can detune the copied version but it is a specific sound (80's).
Better just play it twice and let the natural variation between takes full up the sound.

Remember to high pass the guitar to make room for the bass, I like 80hz for that unless you are playing metal.
Sometimes 120hz, depending on the register.

It's not the 76. It's the 2A. I got it wrong on my first post. 

Cirrus

Bill_S said:

You can also record the part just once, copy to another track and then nudge the copied track along the timeline very slightly. Pan one track hard right and the other left. 

Noooooo - unless you want it to sound like there's an out of time guitarist in the band, anyway. Short enough nudges that feel isn't ruined and you're in comb filter city.

Cirrus

Talking of compressors for guitar, the 2a and Klanhelm mjuc comp are my two faves - mode 2 is a 176 (not 1176 emu) and it's great for thickening things up.

thermionic

I watched an interesting video by Warren Huart (Produce Like A Pro) about layering/panning acoustic guitars. He’s got a load of videos about recording electrics as well. Time spent watching his videos will not be time wasted. Same goes for Rick Beato - both share a wealth of knowledge and experience.

PolarityMan

Recently Ive been being a bit of a savage with my guitars, tilt shelf boosting the highs and using L1 across the quadtrack. Sounds hyper aggressive. 

Snap

I duplicate tracks, change the patch on one, pan it a different way, and knock it along or back by about a millisecond. However, reading stuff on here is going to make me try some different techniques. I'm doing a track right now that is perfect for this experiments, cos Im not that happy with the overall guitar sound, which I am trying make huge and chuggy. In the vein of Sad But True crossed with Rammstein....ish

octatonic

Some general advice not aimed at anyone in particular.
All the creative techniques in terms of editing and effects tricks should never really be a replacement for 'play it tight twice'.

If you can't play a repetitive 2 bar riff tight enough to put on the left and right channels without it sounding wrong then that is the thing to work on. You won't edit your way out of that particular problem.

PolarityMan

A little tip I like for helping with that is to track in mono rather than panned as it makes timing errors more noticeable. 

Bill_S

Cirrus said:

Bill_S said:

You can also record the part just once, copy to another track and then nudge the copied track along the timeline very slightly. Pan one track hard right and the other left. 

Noooooo - unless you want it to sound like there's an out of time guitarist in the band, anyway. Short enough nudges that feel isn't ruined and you're in comb filter city.

I respectfully disagree. The nudge can be short enough so that there is no possibility of sounding out of time. You do have to watch the phase issue, but it’s easy to adjust the nudge to ensure it doesn’t become a problem. I have successfully employed this technique many times and it can work really well. 

Cirrus

Bill_S said:

Cirrus said:

Bill_S said:

You can also record the part just once, copy to another track and then nudge the copied track along the timeline very slightly. Pan one track hard right and the other left. 

Noooooo - unless you want it to sound like there's an out of time guitarist in the band, anyway. Short enough nudges that feel isn't ruined and you're in comb filter city.

I respectfully disagree. The nudge can be short enough so that there is no possibility of sounding out of time. You do have to watch the phase issue, but it’s easy to adjust the nudge to ensure it doesn’t become a problem. I have successfully employed this technique many times and it can work really well. 

How short a nudge, and what happens when you collapse the mix to mono (or play it on a system with a narrow soundstage?

Genuine question - of course, it's your mix and if it's right to you it *is* right. But my experience of duplicate-and nudge in time is that if it's enough of a time difference to avoid comb filtering with the un-nudged track, it's enough to hear as out-of groove (groove and feel being a matter of milliseconds). I just don't see why you'd ever do it over either getting a proper double done, or just being happy with the single track - and I'm not alone in that.

PolarityMan

Ive used it as a fake echo on clean parts before but there obv the nudge is pretty big