What do use for Drums on your DAW

WiresDreamDisasters

I use BFD3, Superior 3, Addictive Drums 2, and various Kontakt libraries like GGD's Modern and Massive. I'm not here in a work capacity as I like to try to keep the two separate, but I'm also the Product Owner for BFD so if you have any questions about it, feel free to hit me up!

Fez

EZ drummer for me I get expansion sound packs and midi packs when they are on sale. Also have some groove monkey packs which are pretty good.

SnazzyGeezer

I've spent at least 5/6 hours yesterday checking the out some of the major contenders.
Its so difficult,as they all have something to bring to the table.

The Slate 5.5 seems a quick way to get some decent drums down quickly

A bit samey sounding,and a bit over produced.

EZ3 has some great sounds,tons of expansion packs too,although a bit pricey.

Superior Drummer leans a bit to much towards hardrock/metal sounding stuff for me.

But i think my favourite, is the BFD3 (Closely followed EZ3) the level of control on the BFD3 is crazy,plus i like the sounds,which helps.
The programming maybe not as straight forward due to the program depth
But again, the price is a bit of a turn off.

I suppose the amount of time companies invest on all these things,has to reflect in the price,i get it.
I'm just a cheapskate,wanting to have Vinnie Colaiutas drum sound for £9.99 : - )

The quest continues.......well,for a little while longer at least.

andy_k

A few more ideas,
Spitfire LABS has a pretty nice sounding indie style kit, and I have a couple of sets from UGRITONE, which are very metal, but nice to have some variety.
I have got in the habit of using a drum bus, with an instance of SSD5 as a 16 channel kit, and then I have another track with an instance of Pluginguru UNIFY, which has a total of 5 different drum VST loaded, these are- Ugritone Norhtern artillery and Anarchy drums, MT power, LABS, and SITALA.
That sounds like overkill, but it is all set up as a track template in Reaper, and takes about 30 seconds to load.
All these VSTs have slightly different mapping, so sometimes there are some unusual results, but UNIFY works as a mixer which allows them to be muted or solo'd to suit.
They all trigger off the same midi tracks, and I tend to bounce out stuff to audio when I want to commit to something.
I use the Unify tracks for some good ambient sounds, and blend with the main SSD tracks, instead of relying on reverb FX.
Highly recommend Unify itself for drum stuff as they have a lot of good libraries available for anything from Breaktweaker stuff to world drum samples.
No shortage of good drum stuff out there.

PolarityMan

andy_k said:

A few more ideas,
Spitfire LABS has a pretty nice sounding indie style kit, and I have a couple of sets from UGRITONE, which are very metal, but nice to have some variety.
I have got in the habit of using a drum bus, with an instance of SSD5 as a 16 channel kit, and then I have another track with an instance of Pluginguru UNIFY, which has a total of 5 different drum VST loaded, these are- Ugritone Norhtern artillery and Anarchy drums, MT power, LABS, and SITALA.
That sounds like overkill, but it is all set up as a track template in Reaper, and takes about 30 seconds to load.
All these VSTs have slightly different mapping, so sometimes there are some unusual results, but UNIFY works as a mixer which allows them to be muted or solo'd to suit.
They all trigger off the same midi tracks, and I tend to bounce out stuff to audio when I want to commit to something.
I use the Unify tracks for some good ambient sounds, and blend with the main SSD tracks, instead of relying on reverb FX.
Highly recommend Unify itself for drum stuff as they have a lot of good libraries available for anything from Breaktweaker stuff to world drum samples.
No shortage of good drum stuff out there.

Oh I see facebook ads for ugritone stuff all the time but never tried them out partly as they seem too cheap to be true. Are they actually any good? 

PolarityMan

SnazzyGeezer said:

But i think my favourite, is the BFD3 (Closely followed EZ3) the level of control on the BFD3 is crazy,plus i like the sounds,which helps.
The programming maybe not as straight forward due to the program depth
But again, the price is a bit of a turn off.

I do like BFD for more natural sounding drums especially for the control over articulations. I only really got GGD as a supplement as I find it easier to get closer to a certain type of modern metal sound with those libraries than with BFD but that probably says more about my abilities as a mixer than the sample pack as I do keep finding myself going "why the fuck is there no rimshot articulation" when Im using Invasion  

DiscoStu

You could try some freebies to get you started, such as MT Power Drumkit 2 or Rayzoon Jamstix 4. Find what works and doesn't work for you then buy the high end software that fixes the problems.

andy_k

PolarityMan said:

andy_k said:

A few more ideas,
Spitfire LABS has a pretty nice sounding indie style kit, and I have a couple of sets from UGRITONE, which are very metal, but nice to have some variety.
I have got in the habit of using a drum bus, with an instance of SSD5 as a 16 channel kit, and then I have another track with an instance of Pluginguru UNIFY, which has a total of 5 different drum VST loaded, these are- Ugritone Norhtern artillery and Anarchy drums, MT power, LABS, and SITALA.
That sounds like overkill, but it is all set up as a track template in Reaper, and takes about 30 seconds to load.
All these VSTs have slightly different mapping, so sometimes there are some unusual results, but UNIFY works as a mixer which allows them to be muted or solo'd to suit.
They all trigger off the same midi tracks, and I tend to bounce out stuff to audio when I want to commit to something.
I use the Unify tracks for some good ambient sounds, and blend with the main SSD tracks, instead of relying on reverb FX.
Highly recommend Unify itself for drum stuff as they have a lot of good libraries available for anything from Breaktweaker stuff to world drum samples.
No shortage of good drum stuff out there.

Oh I see facebook ads for ugritone stuff all the time but never tried them out partly as they seem too cheap to be true. Are they actually any good? 

The first one I tried was NA drums, which are good for a particular genre, just think of it like black metal SSD, multi output, multi mic environment, with mixer.
Next one was Anarchy, ( freebie ) which is a much simpler punk style mixer.
The current one, Kvult, is a more evolved version of NA, I think.
Sometimes it is good to have something quick and dirty, like LABS, for getting a rough vibe together, and I use SITALA, which is free, for the authentic 808, and 909 stuff which can be useful to blend in, and also to play back my own samples.
MTpower is great for quick basic sounds, and I like to blend in some dry stuff.
Unify is very helpful in allowing all this stuff to be played back as a single stereo track, although stuff can easily be muted or solod for rendering, including blends of any elements.
The pre-set packs for Unify are now working with their own midi sequences and mapping, so anything is really possible now, they are all based on sample playback for example, and they just have their own mixer and triggering environments.
Obviously, the major ones are all well developed, and it is all down to personal prefs, but I invested in SSD5, and I use that one as the focus for my more 'real' sounding drums, with the addition of a few things like Blackbird expansion.
There are a lot of packs of midi, from people like Groovemonkey, with all the patterns you could imagine, and it can be interesting to see how they work with random mapping, in the way I have it set up. Most of the big ones are using real time captures of a drummer, which helps to keep the human timing and dynamics real.
A thrash kit can still play back jazz or disco grooves, with some interesting results, and post processing can pretty much get them to sound any way you like.
Sometimes it can be paralysing to be trying to get the one main drum sound you want, which is why I like to have my options quickly available. Reapers track template function makes that very easy.

smigeon

Are there any products that can do convincing jazz drums, I wonder? There's nothing in the (otherwise excellent) Logic Pro X  Drummer that can even approach jazz drumming.

So far, I've been combining MIDI drums from the iReal Pro program (heavily editing it in the piano roll at the level of individual hits - ugh) with snippets from the DrumGenius app. The latter has great jazz drums but unfortunately they are only 8 bar loops and audio-only so no editing.

I crave what Logic's Drummer does for rock etc. genres for the jazz genre... 

mike257

smigeon said:

Are there any products that can do convincing jazz drums, I wonder? There's nothing in the (otherwise excellent) Logic Pro X  Drummer that can even approach jazz drumming.

So far, I've been combining MIDI drums from the iReal Pro program (heavily editing it in the piano roll at the level of individual hits - ugh) with snippets from the DrumGenius app. The latter has great jazz drums but unfortunately they are only 8 bar loops and audio-only so no editing.

I crave what Logic's Drummer does for rock etc. genres for the jazz genre... 

I think it's hard to find a convincing library that will give you the level of articulation present in jazz drumming without doing heavy programming work as you've already described. It's so much more dynamic than rock/pop playing in general, so it's much harder to emulate convincingly.

PolarityMan

I bet there will be.mido packs out there though..if I was programming I'd really focus on getting the swing grid right and getting one really nice paradiddle that I could copy and paste around.

andy_k

A quick search on google for 'Jazz drum midi' brings up loads of packs by all the usual makers, Groovemonkey has stuff played by a real person, so there is no shortage.
In Logic, you can just set the project up with regions and make the regions as complicated as you like, with tempo variations etc. Choose one of the more progressive drummers, and export the midi to be played by any drum VST you choose.
Thats what I do when I am struggling for inspiration, and I have a Logic project set up as a template for that purpose, now you can have more than one drummer in a project, variety is the spice of life.

Musicwolf

Here's a snippet of something that I've been doing using Superior Drummer 3.  Jazz isn't my thing, so this is more of a spoof if you like, but it gives an idea as to what you can achieve with some MIDI library stuff

https://soundcloud.com/music-wolf/clockwork-section/s-h7mOtCjrlPX

Teetonetal

I mainly use the NI Session Drummer as it comes in the komplete pack-  took a while to get sounds I like, but for the quality of tune I'm producing it does a job.

I hated AD with a passion, could not get to grips at all. I also tried SS5 but the sounds did not fit.

I will look at BFD3 and Superior Drummer 3 when I can scrape enough cash together.

Jalapeno

For jazz drums I used to use jazz loops from session drummers (used to - as in not doing a lot of DAW dabbling these days)

Nerine

Superior Drummer 3. 

I’ve tried/owned/used Addictive Drums, SD2, BFD3, EZ Drummer etc and SD3 is in a class above. 

Don’t bother with anything else. I’ve used them. 

I’ve also got the Rock Foundry (Bob Rock) expansion and there’s precious few drum sounds I’m not able to achieve. 

SD3. For sure. It’s killer. 

Nerine

mike257 said:

smigeon said:

Are there any products that can do convincing jazz drums, I wonder? There's nothing in the (otherwise excellent) Logic Pro X  Drummer that can even approach jazz drumming.

So far, I've been combining MIDI drums from the iReal Pro program (heavily editing it in the piano roll at the level of individual hits - ugh) with snippets from the DrumGenius app. The latter has great jazz drums but unfortunately they are only 8 bar loops and audio-only so no editing.

I crave what Logic's Drummer does for rock etc. genres for the jazz genre... 

I think it's hard to find a convincing library that will give you the level of articulation present in jazz drumming without doing heavy programming work as you've already described. It's so much more dynamic than rock/pop playing in general, so it's much harder to emulate convincingly.

SD3 is absolutely able to do that. It has the level of articulation required. It just means you aren’t able to smash blobs in the MIDI editor at 127 velocity constantly. (As a tip, don’t use 127. Default it at 126 for your standard rock stuff. It sounds more natural that way. Save 127 for large hits that absolutely need the whole nine yards on them.) 

The limitation isn’t the software IMO. It’s the programming of it. 

I could easily fool people with SD3 and have done many times over. 

Nerine

SnazzyGeezer said:

I've spent at least 5/6 hours yesterday checking the out some of the major contenders.
Its so difficult,as they all have something to bring to the table.

The Slate 5.5 seems a quick way to get some decent drums down quickly

A bit samey sounding,and a bit over produced.

EZ3 has some great sounds,tons of expansion packs too,although a bit pricey.

Superior Drummer leans a bit to much towards hardrock/metal sounding stuff for me.

But i think my favourite, is the BFD3 (Closely followed EZ3) the level of control on the BFD3 is crazy,plus i like the sounds,which helps.
The programming maybe not as straight forward due to the program depth
But again, the price is a bit of a turn off.

I suppose the amount of time companies invest on all these things,has to reflect in the price,i get it.
I'm just a cheapskate,wanting to have Vinnie Colaiutas drum sound for £9.99 : - )

The quest continues.......well,for a little while longer at least.

SD3 isn’t leaned towards rock and metal at all. It’s quite a neutral canvas. If anything I’d say that the standard library isn’t quite hard hitting enough. That’s not to say it can’t be if you actually mix a kit, but the dry sounds are pretty natural. The Bob Rock expansion more than ably takes care of hard hitting stuff. I’m looking forward to getting the Eddie Kramer Legacy of Rock expansion too. That sounds killer. 

Also. (Flame suit on)

It’s better than BFD3 by some margin in my opinion. It’s a lot more realistic. The cymbals sound better, the rooms are more authentic etc. I’ve owned both. I got BFD3 when I realised that SD2 wasn’t quite cutting it. I used it on a few projects, quickly saw the limitations with how some things are processed or synthesised and went back to SD2. Then I got SD3 when it was released and the game was changed... 
I’m no stranger to programming a MIDI drum track, I’ve done it literally hundreds of times. I could not make the cymbals on BFD3 sound anything other than a bit rubbish and unnatural regardless of the kit pieces, the settings, the velocities used etc. I have no such issues with SD3. 

I thought some of the shells sounded fatter on BFD3 than SD2 hence why I bought it. 

I even used to process cymbals and hats in SD2 and leave the shells in BFD3. But that’s a huge faff and leads to an incoherent overall sound. 

Maybe BFD3 has had an upgrade since then because I’m going back a while. I haven’t bothered to check since because I have no reason to. 

It may seem like saving some money in the short term is wise with this kind of thing. But you may as well just buy it once, buy it right and not be left wanting or feeling like you need to spend more cash down the line when you start to realise some of the limitations of other drum VIs. 

YMMV. 

WiresDreamDisasters

One of the issues with BFD3 and cymbals is that we offer spot mics for every single cymbal, whereas Toontrack don't. What this can often mean for the user (and this is something I want to fix) is that they load a kitpiece up, don't really mess around with the mixer too much, and their cymbals are way too loud because of the extra spot mic. Usually for our purposes we'd want to turn those down.

BFD3 offers incredible flexibility. But it does ask a lot of the user - this is another thing I want to change. Because I want us all to be able to focus on the music, and not titting about with drum engineering minutia.

Both BFD3 and SD3 have been used on best selling albums over the last 17 years, so I'm not too worried about a comparison tbh!

I use SD3 a lot, especially their audio triggering panel. It's fantastic!

dilbert

Snap said:

If you download the rather excellent, well actually superb, free Cakewalk DAW, it comes loaded with SI Drummer, which is pretty damn good for nothing.

@Snap thanks for the heads up, I have just started some basic recording and downloaded Cakewalk as it was free and there are loads of instructional videos on YT. I haven't got around to MIDI yet but it's good to know there are some drums in there to make a start on.