SM7B vs AKG 414 XLS

spark240

Anyone tried both?...I'm thinking something for my youtube vids and also a useful mic for acoustic guitars and vocals.

thegummy

It's unusual to use a dynamic mic (SM7B) on acoustic guitar. Like, pretty much never done when a selection of mics is available.

That doesn't necessarily mean you never could or that no one would ever like the sound of it - it would depend on the type of part being recorded.

They're both used a lot on vocals.

Out of those 2 mics, if people had to choose just 1 of them for acoustic guitar and vocals, I think more than 90% would take the AKG.

What you may well be able to do would be to search on YouTube for sm7b acoustic guitar and you might be able to hear an example because it's a very popular mic, especially with YouTube people.

Something to note is that you may need a CloudLifter mic booster to use the SM7B, depending what mic preamp you use. It requires a lot of gain.

Cirrus

If I can be excused for being slightly contrary, it's not as unusual as thegummy implies, especially when the acoustic is going to be part of a more dense arrangement - in those situations, an SM7, RE20, even SM57 is just the ticket and controls the sound in a useful way.

However, it is *a* sound in its own right and as such not a good call when the aim is to capture the instrument as transparently as possible. So yes, a lot of the time the 414 is the obvious call, but don't discount the idea than an SM7 can capture a good acoustic sound.

As to which is more useful, more of the time... it just depends what you record! The 414 is a workhorse and standard for a reason, though I think they can tend towards too clinical/bright if you're looking for character (I tend to prefer 4050s, any time I've done a head-to-head on a source). There are different versions, and they command different premiums depending - I've used the oldest, C12 capsule versions and they *are* better than the new ones to my ears. Of the current production, I'd avoid the one with the HF boost built in - they're bright enough!

The SM7b is basically a posh sm57 with a flatter midrange and extended highs, and has the advantage of very high spl/blast resistance so it'll happily sit against the lips of someone absolutely screaming, or the hole in a kick drum, and deliver something useable where the 414 would bottom out. It's quite dry and unflattering, I know on my voice I end up having to add bottom end, air, and compress a couple db more than when I use a decent condenser. But that unflattering nature means it rarely sounds bad on a voice, whereas a 414 might be perfect for one voice and too brittle on another.

I've never felt the need for a cloudlifter with my sm7, I find vocals need about 35dB of gain and acoustics maybe 40-50 depending on positioning. It wouldn't be the right choice for a quiet source like egg shakers, or room miking an acoustic sound. What does make a difference is the preamp's input impedance - the midrange opens out and it sounds bigger and smoother at 300 than it does at 1200 ohms on my GAP pre 73, as well as generating a higher signal level. I think a cloudlifter would come into the picture if you had a very high input impedance and a quiet source.

thegummy

Cirrus said:

If I can be excused for being slightly contrary, it's not as unusual as thegummy implies, especially when the acoustic is going to be part of a more dense arrangement - in those situations, an SM7, RE20, even SM57 is just the ticket and controls the sound in a useful way.

Can you name some records where the acoustic guitar has been recorded with a SM7B or similar?

Not like an early home studio recording that uses 57s on everything, I mean one done where there was a good choice of mics available but they still used a dynamic on the acoustic guitar?

I'm interested if you could even name a few but, even if you can, when you think about how many examples of acoustic guitar recorded with a condenser I could give in return you might agree that it is as unusual as I implied

Cirrus

thegummy said:

Can you name some records where the acoustic guitar has been recorded with a SM7B or similar?

Not like an early home studio recording that uses 57s on everything, I mean one done where there was a good choice of mics available but they still used a dynamic on the acoustic guitar?

I'm interested if you could even name a few but, even if you can, when you think about how many examples of acoustic guitar recorded with a condenser I could give in return you might agree that it is as unusual as I implied

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you thegummy. You said "pretty much never done" and I didn't think that was a fair assessment. Just because condensers are more commonly used, doesn't make it unusual to use a dynamic. If you think me listing a few records I know were done with dynamics and you listing a higher number that you know were done with condensers helps anyone reading this thread or proves you were right, more power to you.

WiresDreamDisasters

Not answering the OP's question at all really, but I'd never just immediately turn my nose up at using a specific mic on any instrument. It's worth a try, takes a few minutes to see if you like it, and then you know for next time.

I don't really care whether someone else has done it on their album or not.

I didn't end up with a preference for a 421+57 on guitar cabs because I read about it; I ended up with it because I tried it.

I don't dislike ribbons on guitar because I read about it; I ended up with that viewpoint because I tried it.

robwright

Use what ya got and what ya like! 

If it’s a well played acoustic part, it will still sound good with a £10 Behringer mic! 

spark240

Ok Ill make to simple....lets say you can afford one of the 2 mics in question...primary use is recording acoustics / vocal...but would also like decent results for vid voiceovers..

Cirrus

If it was for my voice and my guitar, SM7 - because my voice is sibilant with the 414, my acoustic is bright already, and I'd mostly be recording in sub-par rooms with traffic noise that the SM7 would do a better job of ignoring. And if I had money for a new 414, I'd get an AT series. And actually now I think about it more, I'd probably go for an RE20 rather than SM7. The only reason I use the SM7b is that I have one, it does the job, and my RE20 broke.

But... maybe your voice sounds brilliant with the 414, and my advice would be terrible for you. 

Stuckfast

Why are you limiting it to those two mics?

The SM7B is a good vocal mic in that it gives acceptable results on most voices and you can work it up close. I'd say it's more the sort of mic that gets you out of a hole with 'difficult' singers than one that gives absolute stellar results on the best singers, though. Never tried one on acoustic guitar but in general I often really like dynamics on acoustic, especially strummed. Try an AKG D19 some time.

I haven't used the current 414 but most of the versions after the original 414EB are fairly bland and neutral-sounding. They can be good on female singers who sound honky or edgy on other mics. On male singers they can be a bit soft and polite. Generally a decent instrument mic and a good studio all-rounder.

Either way, for similar money I think you can get better mics. Personally I'd rather have a Beyer M88 than an SM7B. And unless you need the switchable patterns I'd choose the Austrian Audio OC18 ahead of the 414 XLS any day of the week. A lot of the Audio-Technica mics are excellent value too.

Nerine

The SM7B is a great mic. 

I use it a lot when I have to deal with aggressive singers. I find it also works well in rooms that are maybe a bit too lively. Condensers will tend to pick up a lot of the ambience as well as the source. 

I’ve used a lot of C414’s in the past and really like those too. As a mid level condenser they’re pretty tough to beat and are a staple of most decent mic lockers. I’ve used them on overheads, rooms, acoustic instruments, occasionally vocals if I haven’t got a Neumann or Telefunken lying around, guitar cabs, you name it. 

It’s a bit of an apples and oranges comparison really as both mics will excel in some areas that the other won’t and vice versa. 

You do need a good preamp with the SM7B. It does require some juice up it. But, get that right and it does sound good. 

I’ve used the SM7B on fewer sources than the 414, but it will work on pretty much anything an SM57 will. You also don’t have to worry too much about the amount of SPL it sees. 

If your use case is going to be literally as you describe in the OP, then I’d probably go for the 414. It’ll be slightly easier to get a sound dialled pretty quickly, plus it gives you a lot of options with pickup pattern, pad and HPF. 

The SM7B is a great mic. And I love it on rock vocals. Even more so than silly money condensers, but the 414 will prove to be a bit more of a catch all in this scenario IMO. 

WiresDreamDisasters

FWIW, I've not got much personal home studio experience with expensive mics, because I'm a cheap bastard. But I generally don't like my condensers on my voice. I've got a Rode NT2000, but I prefer my SM57 and Audix i5. Because I'm bright and brash and nasally.

thegummy

Cirrus said:

thegummy said:

Can you name some records where the acoustic guitar has been recorded with a SM7B or similar?

Not like an early home studio recording that uses 57s on everything, I mean one done where there was a good choice of mics available but they still used a dynamic on the acoustic guitar?

I'm interested if you could even name a few but, even if you can, when you think about how many examples of acoustic guitar recorded with a condenser I could give in return you might agree that it is as unusual as I implied

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you thegummy. You said "pretty much never done" and I didn't think that was a fair assessment. Just because condensers are more commonly used, doesn't make it unusual to use a dynamic. If you think me listing a few records I know were done with dynamics and you listing a higher number that you know were done with condensers helps anyone reading this thread or proves you were right, more power to you.

Wow if I knew you'd be that type who saw it as some sort of weird competition I wouldn't even have given you the benefit of the doubt.

The fact is, if you took any random dozen magazine articles or interviews or videos etc. detailing professional recording sessions, the chance that any of them would use a SM7B or similar on the acoustic guitar are very slim.

Of course that's helpful to the OP - one of the mics he's considering is used loads on acoustic guitar and the other is hardly ever.

@spark240 - I'd advise googling for articles about records you like the sound of (there are loads available, soundonsound is a good source) and see what mics are used on the acoustic guitars on those.

Legionreturns

I'd have a look at the Aston Stealth for a good, versatile mic that can do many different jobs very well. 

Since getting mine it's become my goto mic for so many different jobs. 

4 different diaphragm settings each available with or without 48v. Outstanding and considerably cheaper than an SM7B

Cirrus

thegummy said:

Wow if I knew you'd be that type who saw it as some sort of weird competition I wouldn't even have given you the benefit of the doubt.

TheGummy, asking me to list records so you could do the same would have been a weird competition. It also would stop the thread being useful to Spark240 (who I've met and had a nice chat with) because it'd make it about us. Unfortunately this is your second reply sparked by one sentence in a long post I did where I tried to share my experience of the two mics in the hope that it'd be useful, so it looks like that ship has sailed now.

The irony is, I don't even disagree in principle with a lot of what you said - the 90/10 suggestion probably isn't far off and condensers are more commonly used. All I wanted to do was point out that actually it's a perfectly useful sound and in some situations preferable - because then Spark could make a judgement call based on his intended use.

What might be useful is a look at what you said about the cloudlifter - how much gain do you feel you need when you use an SM7b, and what kind of applications do you use it in? Personal experience is golden.