It's the age old question - my solos suck! How do I improve?

Rocker

Learn a simple song or melody on the guitar. Then figure out how to play it on a different part of the neck. The do that again on another area on the fretboard. Then expand the tune by using octaves, both higher and lower. This exercise will help you see the fretboard in it’s entirety rather than only seeing a tiny box. 

Repeat every practice session and over time, you will break out of the safety of a Pentatonic box and thus give your playing a different emphasis and feel. 

fretmeister

ToneControl said:

one trick is to learn to play the vocal lines, and then work around those

helps with developing phrasing and melodic thinking

This.

Also play solos from wind instruments. The phrasing is different again to vocal lines and have often been composed in a very different way. There's no shapes to get stuck to with a sax or clarinet.

There's a very good chance it will force you to play in different keys as well. Always useful for a bit of extra knowledge.

AK99

I'm not in the same league as most of the guys above (or even perhaps on a par with those some several divisions lower) but happened upon something related yesterday.  Was in the car and Spotify threw up a version of Need Your Love so Bad - the 'US version'.

I found Green's little solo runs - enthralling' for want of a better word: must have listened to them about a dozen times on the way home.  Sat down last night to figure out what was going on, and copy him, and realised technically he's not doing anything complicated at all really, but the feel the man gets into them through the vibrato and delaying a note or notes and leaving you waiting is immense. A real example of Less is More in so many ways.

For me the takeaway from that was to ease off worrying about the technical side of the playing a bit, and try to figure out how to learn to make what I'm trying to play more 'musical' and engaging, if that makes sense. 

Roland

AK99 said:

For me the takeaway from that was to ease off worrying about the technical side of the playing a bit, and try to figure out how to learn to make what I'm trying to play more 'musical' and engaging, if that makes sense. 

Total sense.

ToneControl

fretmeister said:

ToneControl said:

one trick is to learn to play the vocal lines, and then work around those

helps with developing phrasing and melodic thinking

This.

Also play solos from wind instruments. The phrasing is different again to vocal lines and have often been composed in a very different way. There's no shapes to get stuck to with a sax or clarinet.

There's a very good chance it will force you to play in different keys as well. Always useful for a bit of extra knowledge.

yes, some of the best players mimic wind instrument phrasing

OP: As an exercise, think of a melody you know well, and see if you can play it from what's in your head, without listening to the track at the same time. This is part of learning to do solos that are not completely based on rehearsed licks and geometric patterns on the fretboard

Another step up at some point could be to listen to some Matt Schofield tutorial videos: He will use a couple of keys related to the main scale and chords, but only as far as sounding a bit jazzier, rather than going full modal Jazz. I know it's not for everyone, just an option.

I'd still say that melodies and phrasing are what works best for most listeners. 

DesWalker

axisus said:

Danny1969 said:

DesWalker said:

A good start would be to learn the notes on the fretboard. Start with the frets that have dots and build out from there. I don’t see how you can get anywhere without that. You’ve got to get very familiar with the chromatic scale.

Yep totally agree. You have to know where the notes is you want to be able to implement cool ideals on the fly.  Without that fundamental knowledge everything is going ground to a halt very quickly. 

Hmmnn ...... maybe I'll make another attempt at that ..... 

Start with frets 0, 5 and 7. The notes on these frets coincide with the root notes of the I, IV and V chords in the Nashville number system which you might already know ? But if not then that’s next after learning the notes on the fretboard. Start with frets 0, 5 and 7.

guitarjack66

I have found mnemonics to be the best way of memorising the notes on the keyboard. Apart from the Eddie Ate Dynamite Good Bye Eddie starting place at the nut I have 'invented' my own sayings for 3 5 7 and 10 frets and it helps tremendously. The 2 down and 2 across trick for strings 6 and 5 and the 3 along and 2 down for strings 3 and 4 and the open C method for strings 1 and 2 have opened up the fretboard for me. I just have to learn to play now!!

Vibetronic

As the guys above have said, learning the notes is really useful. Some people can find their way around by feel alone, but I'm not one of them, and if you're like me then knowing the notes is your map around the fretboard. I can understand it's something you've never learned - but with enough work it *will* sink in....When you see people playing fluently and with variation, you can bet that most of it is down to hard work - yeah with some it's (partly) down to natural talent - but mostly it's by doing the same thing every day, every week, every month, every year for decades. You can play well already - a bit of hard work and you'll be able to play even better. Of course it depends on how you learn things, and everyone is different in that regard. I was going to suggest start by learning the notes at the fret markers on the board, but someone has suggested this above (I started typing this 2 days ago...having a baby eats up time!). Happy to chat online - I know you said you hate it (and frankly I do too, even though I teach online - in person is a million times better!!) but it might help, you never know 

axisus

The learning the fretboard thing - surely that's only really useful if you know what you are playing over in terms of chords? I have to admit I have a poor ear for sound, I never know what I am listening to just by the sound of it. No chord chart and I would be lost!

guitarjack66

'Knowledge is power' and learning the fretboard is knowledge! I may have paraphrased there a little.

DesWalker

axisus said:

The learning the fretboard thing - surely that's only really useful if you know what you are playing over in terms of chords? I have to admit I have a poor ear for sound, I never know what I am listening to just by the sound of it. No chord chart and I would be lost!

It sounds like you’re looking for an excuse not to bother. 

Are you really okay with fretting a note and not having a clue what note you’re playing !? We’re not talking unnecessary stuff here, we’re talking “if you don’t know this then what’s the point in playing at all” type stuff.

Anyway, you will have to make your own mind up if you are willing to put in a little effort to learn the basic mechanics of your instrument. Good luck whatever you decide.

MrTee

Howard Morgen on Truefire has a great series on fretboard knowledge. Highly recommended, pennies were dropping all over the place for me, after years of ignoring theory etc

https://truefire.com/jazz-guitar-lessons/fingerboard-breakthrough/c210

Don't let the 'jazz' category put you off. 

axisus

DesWalker said:

Are you really okay with fretting a note and not having a clue what note you’re playing !? We’re not talking unnecessary stuff here, we’re talking “if you don’t know this then what’s the point in playing at all” type stuff.

sorry but that's just rubbish! 

Danny1969

I was chatting about learning the fretboard with one of my students tonight and he asked how quickly I learnt all the notes and I said I don't actually remember spending much time doing it, it just seemed obvious it had to be learnt first and so I got on with it. 

Looking back when I first picked up a guitar there was no tab so you had to learn from sheet music. I remember getting the sheet music for Apache. It had been written in Gm for some reason but I jotted the notes down and worked out where those notes were on the guitar and that's how I progressed forward. Because that was the only way forward with no guitar teacher, no tab, no internet etc it was a simple job to get done first with no distractions. 

These days there are too many distractions. Why bother learning the fretboard when Johnny You-tuber can teach you how to play Plug in Baby or whatever just using tab and telling you what fret numbers to use ? The truth is though, that's an easy way forward but it actually hampers you from learning properly. 

The Pentatonic scale is another thing. I never started with the pentatonic scale, we weren't taught it at school we were just taught the major and minor scale. For some reason now with guitar the pentatonic scale is thrust upon every beginner and they stay solo'ing in the same box positions playing the same tired licks, and someone has to break them out and show them how to play all over the neck. 

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is if they ignored tab, learnt the notes all over the neck and ignored the pentatonic blues box they would be playing all over the neck and staying in key a lot sooner. 

And I remember when this was all fields and you could go to the cinema and get 20 fags and a roast dinner for 2 bob etc

notsopro

Danny1969 said:

I was chatting about learning the fretboard with one of my students tonight and he asked how quickly I learnt all the notes and I said I don't actually remember spending much time doing it, it just seemed obvious it had to be learnt first and so I got on with it. 

Looking back when I first picked up a guitar there was no tab so you had to learn from sheet music. I remember getting the sheet music for Apache. It had been written in Gm for some reason but I jotted the notes down and worked out where those notes were on the guitar and that's how I progressed forward. Because that was the only way forward with no guitar teacher, no tab, no internet etc it was a simple job to get done first with no distractions. 

These days there are too many distractions. Why bother learning the fretboard when Johnny You-tuber can teach you how to play Plug in Baby or whatever just using tab and telling you what fret numbers to use ? The truth is though, that's an easy way forward but it actually hampers you from learning properly. 

The Pentatonic scale is another thing. I never started with the pentatonic scale, we weren't taught it at school we were just taught the major and minor scale. For some reason now with guitar the pentatonic scale is thrust upon every beginner and they stay solo'ing in the same box positions playing the same tired licks, and someone has to break them out and show them how to play all over the neck. 

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is if they ignored tab, learnt the notes all over the neck and ignored the pentatonic blues box they would be playing all over the neck and staying in key a lot sooner. 

And I remember when this was all fields and you could go to the cinema and get 20 fags and a roast dinner for 2 bob etc

I honestly think this could be one of the most useful things someone looking to improve could learn. I've been playing properly for a little over a year (had spells previously where I'd mess around for a few months, then leave it for years). This is something I've kind of figured out by myself after spending the last couple of months asking myself why whenever I improvise it always sounds the same. Well the answer was I was playing the same scale, in the same 'box' in different orders. 

After some online reading exactly as Danny has stated, I started trying to learn the notes by string, now I've started mixing in learning different chromatic scales in different positions, and it's opened up a whole new world of possibilities, and I wish I'd thought about it this way sooner rather than using the classic 'this scale in this position works really well over these chords'.

My view is by having the knowledge of the entire fretboard doesn't mean you always have to use it, but it means it's always there if you want to use it.

axisus

@Danny1969 You have convinced me to have a proper attempt to learn all the notes! 

Getting started at the weekend ...

Lewy

DesWalker said:

Are you really okay with fretting a note and not having a clue what note you’re playing !? We’re not talking unnecessary stuff here, we’re talking “if you don’t know this then what’s the point in playing at all” type stuff.

That seems to be somewhat lacking in perspective. If you removed from history the contribution of musicians who didn't know the notes they were playing, on the premise that if you don't 'then what's the point in playing at all?' you can basically wipe out most popular music as we know it.

The point is that if you're in a rut, or not meeting your creative goals as is the case with the OP, or you want to better understand why the things that sound good to you do so, this stuff is valuable, but to characterise it as table stakes is demonstrably wrong.

John_A

Roland said:

AK99 said:

For me the takeaway from that was to ease off worrying about the technical side of the playing a bit, and try to figure out how to learn to make what I'm trying to play more 'musical' and engaging, if that makes sense. 

Total sense.

Absolutely - I had a guitar teacher years ago, and proudly showed him the George Lynch lick I'd worked on for ages, his response "very impressive but you could have learnt 50 George Harrison licks in the same time"

AK99

I went back to the Peter Green/Need your Love solo and asked my eldest son, a music graduate, to have a listen and explain why it is so engaging.

He said some of the things he noticed were that PG leaves a lot of the runs 'unresolved', or alternatively, delays the resolution until later than you would expect, which creates the feelings of expectation and building tension that I had actually noticed. The other was that the song is written in 6/8 time, but the solo jumps back and forth between 6/8 and 3/4. Why, and what that results in, I still have no idea whatsoever

personalnadir

I’ve been trying to learn the fret board for a while, haven’t really mastered it yet. 

Current approaches:
- hand drawn diagrams of all the notes on the fret board I refer to while improvising
- practicing playing a single note on all locations on the board: currently just doing all the Fs and Cs
- learning the major and minor triads. That way when I fret a chord I know all the notes under my fingers

despite all of the above i could not tell you what a note on the fretboard is without pausing to work it out. Do feel I’m slowly getting faster at that though 

on the original subject: limiting myself to playing a single string, and allowing myself to hit the same note repeatedly have both helped the musicality of my playing. It is still however meandering and lacks intentionality