What are the most versatile pedals for covers/function bands?

robinbowes

monquixote said:

In my experience people with dozens of patches often end up sounding worse to the audience because they end up with levels and eq wrong and the changes can sound jarring.

This is essentially saying "if you do something badly it will sound worse", which is simply a truism.

robinbowes

ICBM said:

I don't understand the question... light overdrive and AC/DC are the same thing .

Something like a Marshall Guv'nor will do that.

If you want two pedals, Tube Screamer and DS-1 - that will do everything from SRV to Vai. Or TS and Guv'nor if the DS-1 sounds too extreme.

I think there's a tendency to add more gain to get sustain, when in reality it's compression in the power amp  stage that gives sustain. The solution is simply - use a compressor as well as a low-gain overdrive.

R.

ICBM

PC_Dave said:

Yes, but I want it to actually sound good.

Then you want an ME-50.

The reason I use it and constantly recommend it is not just because of the simplicity and ability to change pedal types just by turning a knob, it's because I very carefully A/B'd it with my analogue pedalboard - and the ME-50 sounded just as good, or even better... including for the overdrives. (The only two that didn't were the octaver and analogue delay, and that's because the analogue pedals actually sounded *worse*, but in an interesting way.) The main other difference was the the ME-50 is less noisy, even with the noise suppressor turned off.

The 'Natural Overdrive' model is literally the best-sounding low-to-medium-gain overdrive I've ever heard from a solid-state device, comparable to and nearly indistinguishable from my Mesa V-Twin.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because it's a digital multi-FX it can't possibly sound as good as individual analogue pedals - it does, if you keep an open mind and use your ears.

For what it's worth, I did try an ME-70 and didn't think it sounded quite as good, but if you want amp modelling or a footswitchable compressor then it might be worth looking at. I haven't tried the ME-80.

monquixote

robinbowes said:

monquixote said:

In my experience people with dozens of patches often end up sounding worse to the audience because they end up with levels and eq wrong and the changes can sound jarring.

This is essentially saying "if you do something badly it will sound worse", which is simply a truism.

Not really.

If you are in a standard pub band you don't have someone doing FoH for you so typically you play a number and someone walks out the front and does some "up a bit", "down a bit", "a bit less 1k" etc until everything sounds good and balanced out front. If you have two drive pedals and a clean amp that song basically represents all the sounds you are going to use.

If you have 50 patches you aren't going to realise that the one with the big muff gets totally lost in the mix and the one with the recto has too much low end and clashes with the bass player etc.

It is essentially saying "If you make things too complicated they are more likely to go wrong"

I've always had the most compliments about my sound when I've had a super simple rig (Modelling or valve) and had the worst experience with complex ones.

Voxman

monquixote said:

robinbowes said:

monquixote said:

In my experience people with dozens of patches often end up sounding worse to the audience because they end up with levels and eq wrong and the changes can sound jarring.

This is essentially saying "if you do something badly it will sound worse", which is simply a truism.

Not really.

If you are in a standard pub band you don't have someone doing FoH for you so typically you play a number and someone walks out the front and does some "up a bit", "down a bit", "a bit less 1k" etc until everything sounds good and balanced out front. If you have two drive pedals and a clean amp that song basically represents all the sounds you are going to use.

If you have 50 patches you aren't going to realise that the one with the big muff gets totally lost in the mix and the one with the recto has too much low end and clashes with the bass player etc.

It is essentially saying "If you make things too complicated they are more likely to go wrong"

I've always had the most compliments about my sound when I've had a super simple rig (Modelling or valve) and had the worst experience with complex ones.

This...have a wisdom. 

slacker

Voxman said:

monquixote said:

robinbowes said:

monquixote said:

In my experience people with dozens of patches often end up sounding worse to the audience because they end up with levels and eq wrong and the changes can sound jarring.

This is essentially saying "if you do something badly it will sound worse", which is simply a truism.

Not really.

If you are in a standard pub band you don't have someone doing FoH for you so typically you play a number and someone walks out the front and does some "up a bit", "down a bit", "a bit less 1k" etc until everything sounds good and balanced out front. If you have two drive pedals and a clean amp that song basically represents all the sounds you are going to use.

If you have 50 patches you aren't going to realise that the one with the big muff gets totally lost in the mix and the one with the recto has too much low end and clashes with the bass player etc.

It is essentially saying "If you make things too complicated they are more likely to go wrong"

I've always had the most compliments about my sound when I've had a super simple rig (Modelling or valve) and had the worst experience with complex ones.

This...have a wisdom. 

And from me. 

In my bass playing days I did some stuff with a guy who used Boss GT something. He was the only guy I thought sounded good with a multi. I asked him why. He explained that he had set up some basic sounds, clean, dirt echo and used the switching system and a volume pedal to control them. 

It's why I used pedals. Whats the point in having a million sounds and only use five? 

The initial question was versatile pedals. Actually I don't think you want versatile you want functional. Mick Here got it right. Whats the least you can get away with. 

FInally some ramblings on thought processes and what you need. OK so lets say that you are going to play 'Paint it Black' in a set. I doubt anybody will bother to learn how to play a sitar. However the band adds 'Living on the Ceiling' 'Ever so Lonely' and that Tom Petty one with a Coral guitar in it. At least point you can get a cheap guitar or fit a sitar bridge or an EH pedal. 

Or not. 

Most covers band I have seen don't use Rickenbackers. But if the set had Beatles, Jam, Tom Petty and Rem I would take mine. In fact the last rehearsal I went to I took my Ric 360 just to be perverse and it sounded fine and not a jangly 60s track to be heard. 

TTBZ

robinbowes said:

I think there's a tendency to add more gain to get sustain, when in reality it's compression in the power amp  stage that gives sustain. The solution is simply - use a compressor as well as a low-gain overdrive.

R.

Yes, took me ages to work that one out! I always struggled to get a good feeling low gain tone, everything that wasn't chords felt "dry" and uninspiring to play without adding more gain to make it a bit more fluid. When I got a HX Stomp it allowed me to experiment more with FX that I normally wouldn't have bought or thought to try, and the SP comp model in front of a low gain Placater was great for that low gain thing without sounding too dry. The mix control is key to making it natural.

I agree with @monquixote on keeping it simple with a digital setup. I'd stick to one preset and treat it like a normal rig, just with the added bonus of snapshots or stomp assigns for different sounds/FX combinations.

siremoon

The trouble with threads like this is that there is no unequivocal objective correct answer.  There are zillions of combinations of amps and pedals which in its way is its own kind of option paralysis.  Several posters might agree that a W amp/cab, an X dirt pedal, a Y compressor and a Z reverb is a safe bet and so you go and splurge £1000 on all that and then find you hate it.

The flip side of option paralysis with a modeller is that it gives you the ability to try before you buy.  Many of the models I use now I'd never even heard of before I started using a modeller.  You say you have a stomp, well if you don't actually want to use it in anger then at least use it as a tool to hone in on what actual gear might fit the bill.  It's a lot cheaper than buying a load of stuff and finding you hate it and you might just hit upon a setup you really like. Option paralysis is only a thing if you let it be.  Online shopping for gear is option paralysis if you don't have some basic idea what you're looking for. 

PC_Dave

siremoon said:

The trouble with threads like this is that there is no unequivocal objective correct answer.  There are zillions of combinations of amps and pedals which in its way is its own kind of option paralysis.  Several posters might agree that a W amp/cab, an X dirt pedal, a Y compressor and a Z reverb is a safe bet and so you go and splurge £1000 on all that and then find you hate it.

The flip side of option paralysis with a modeller is that it gives you the ability to try before you buy.  Many of the models I use now I'd never even heard of before I started using a modeller.  You say you have a stomp, well if you don't actually want to use it in anger then at least use it as a tool to hone in on what actual gear might fit the bill.  It's a lot cheaper than buying a load of stuff and finding you hate it and you might just hit upon a setup you really like. Option paralysis is only a thing if you let it be.  Online shopping for gear is option paralysis if you don't have some basic idea what you're looking for. 

I get what you’re saying, but the thing is with the stomp, to me it sounds like a Line 6 product where the fx are really very good, but they sound like a Line 6 product - not like the “real” thing - when it comes to drives, at least to me.

I have a very nice pedal board, which does lots of things, but what I’m trying to do is pair it down / create a smaller board that does the bare minimum for what I need. 

The good thing about threads like this is they provide people’s opinions, and therefore zillions of ideas and options I hadn’t considered before, and can do my research from there.

slacker

I think the stomp has loops. Connect drives and use the stomp for anything not drive related.

CarbonCopy

Drive pedals sound completely different depending on the amp they are plugged into in my limited experience.

What amp are you using?

If the heaviest music you are playing is AC/DC then I've always just used one drive pedal and used the volume on the guitar to clean it up. I also add a boost pedal in front if I want to push it more and a volume pedal in the effects loop to control overall volume.

I used a Line 6 Pod and floorboard for years for playing smaller duo gigs with backing tracks. In those years I only ever really used one of the patches which was a Vox AC30 for clean tones and Marshall Plexi for OD, which could be blended using the expression pedal. I could switch delay, reverb, boost, compressor, chorus on and off on that patch and it was all I ever needed. It did seem a bit of a waste having all those options and only ever using one patch, so I know what you mean about the HX Stomp (which I also have)!

Voxman

Prior to buying my Pod Go in lockdown which is as yet untested in rehearsal or gig settings, I used my Vox Tonelab SE straight through the PA.  It came out in 2004...way ahead of its time in the day but now old tech.  However, it still sounds great ( the clever valve circuitry design really does help make it sound and feel very valvelike) and is the most gig friendly pedal I've ever used. 

The great thing about it for gigging is that not only can use it to select patches or use in stompbox mode, but it has real knobs and dials that are brilliant for tweaking or adding/ changing an amp, cab, or fx model on the fly.  A key advantage over even the latest Boss ME80, is that it has patch naming. When you are on stage, the last thing you have time to do is remember numbers, and even then how many can you remember?  A clear LCD window let's you immediately see your patches.

The TLSE also has 2 expression pedals...one can be used for volume, that can be set for pre or post gain, leaving the other to use as a true expression pedal.  But it also has A/B settings in every patch whereby A and B can change amp, cab, and amp settings in the same patch. So if you want to go from a clean Fender Blackface 2x12 to a JCM800 through a 4x12 in the same song using one patch, you can. 

The only problem is it's as big and heavy overall as a Helix floor.  But it has MIDI too if you need it, really good simple edit software ( brilliant for creating and moving patches for set lists).  I've gigged with it for years, I've tried loads of MFX, but nothing else was as easy to use ( Pod Go is the first MFX at a sensible price that has good floor control and I think should be OK on stage). There is a smaller and lighter TLLE that I also have, which replaced the TLSE and is 24bit. However, you only have the one expression pedal, no A/B switching, and you have to go into a menu to change cab models, rather than turn a dial.

But if you want something built like a tank with a heavy duty PSU with no wall wart, that sounds great and is really simple to use on stage, you could do a heck of a lot worse than pick up a used TLSE or TLLE. Perfect for covers and functions...and covers is what I use it for.  No option paralysis, you get just 16 amp models and set number of fx, no complex menus, no worry about using up DSP etc. 

 http://www.voxshowroom.com/us/misc/tonelab_se.html

http://www.voxshowroom.com/us/misc/tonelab_le.html

I also have a simple 'straight' pedal board to use with an amp if I only need some basic effects. It's a Boss BCB 60 which holds 6 pedals. It's just nice to have some choice and backups. 

ICBM

I just got a Boss GT-1... it’s both brilliant and annoying at the same time. Brilliant because it’s fantastically powerful - much more so than it looks, the editing really goes very deep - and annoying because it’s *such* a faff to do. It does have three knobs, but to navigate them to what you want to edit is a complex process, and despite the very clear display it’s really not something you can do quickly in a gig situation, I don’t think. To make it usable live is going to be a big task, and even then it’s never going to be as foolproof as the ME-50. That’s OK since I didn’t buy it as a replacement, but I would confirm that if you want analogue-pedalboard-like instant control and lack of menus, it’s highly *not* recommended... even though it does also sound very good. (And has patch naming, for Voxman .)

Classic

I’ve played in multiple covers bands and it ultimately depends on the songs abs genre you’re looking to cover.

With a pop/rock band it can be kept relatively simple but as soon as indie or less typical creeps in it gets more complex. E.g. Stereophonics Dakota. Or Killing in the name of.

the most versatile amp I’ve used is the Triamp MKII but it’s a beast and likes to be loud. Not much that can’t be done with that and a Klone for drive.

modulation, you’re better off getting a really good multi-fx modulation pedal. I’ve been using the H9 but had great success with the Mobius. Im currently really interested in the GFI Synesthesia.

Delay/reverb. Can’t go wrong with the Source Audio Collider which sounds great. I used an H9 until recently.

pitch - chose your weapon of choice. I’ve used the H9 previously but the Whammy DT does all the lifting for me now.

It totally depends what you’re trying to achieve as nothing will get 100% of the tones you may want although much will get close enough.

Kebabkid

I've had a Keeley TS-808 and OCD on my board for years. I use them individually and stacked and add in an Xotic EP to push the OCD and that trio sound good and work well together.

To finish off the set up, I use a Keeley Compressor, a TC Flashback Delay, but a dual delay like the Providence Chrono would be good so you can select between 2 different delays, plus it has a tap function. Then, I use the Zoom MS-70 CDR for all my effects and that also serves as my tuner (I actually have 2 of them). This whole set up covers a lot of ground and I used to do functions with it and also more rock-based gigs

One thing I will add is that more recently, I acquired a Wampler Mini Plexi and that one little fella covers all my overdrive needs. If I chose to put just one OD on my board, this would be it. It's versatile and usable throughout its gain range from clipped clean, Stones, Tom Petty, Bryan Adams, AC/DC to bigger rock sounds, for both rhythm and lead and the visible, top-mounted dip switches also add to the versatility and completely change or augment the tones.

For me, this is the most amp-like pedal I've ever owned and I don't just mean for M-I-A-B needs, which it does very well. It also reacts very well to guitar volume changes.

When I compared it to other well-known pedals I had, I could really hear how thin they sound and I'd give one a whirl. In fact, it's made me think about putting together a board of mini pedals.

For ease, many use the Line 6 HX Effects unit to cover most things, including routing and then add a couple of favourite pedals

meltedbuzzbox

ICBM said:

PC_Dave said:

Yes, but I want it to actually sound good.

Then you want an ME-50.

The reason I use it and constantly recommend it is not just because of the simplicity and ability to change pedal types just by turning a knob, it's because I very carefully A/B'd it with my analogue pedalboard - and the ME-50 sounded just as good, or even better... including for the overdrives. (The only two that didn't were the octaver and analogue delay, and that's because the analogue pedals actually sounded *worse*, but in an interesting way.) The main other difference was the the ME-50 is less noisy, even with the noise suppressor turned off.

The 'Natural Overdrive' model is literally the best-sounding low-to-medium-gain overdrive I've ever heard from a solid-state device, comparable to and nearly indistinguishable from my Mesa V-Twin.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because it's a digital multi-FX it can't possibly sound as good as individual analogue pedals - it does, if you keep an open mind and use your ears.

For what it's worth, I did try an ME-70 and didn't think it sounded quite as good, but if you want amp modelling or a footswitchable compressor then it might be worth looking at. I haven't tried the ME-80.

Nope. The ME-50 truly is a gash sounding multi fx pedal.

ICBM

meltedbuzzbox said:

Nope. The ME-50 truly is a gash sounding multi fx pedal.

How have you compared it to your analogue pedals?

TheBigDipper

I'm using the word "you" a bit here, but it's not aimed at the OP, it's all of us.

Playing in a covers band recreating hit songs for the pleasure of the audience?

"That guitar tone doesn't quite have the sponginess and presence of the original recording" said no audience member ever - especially after a couple of drinks. 

Any half-decent MFX that you have spent the time learning to use will be fine. Any small pedalboard with some basic "real" pedals will be fine. 

Spend your time learning to play your parts properly, not faffing with your sounds. The audience might not notice you didn't quite get the overdrive sound correct, because they'll be busy enjoying themselves. They will notice you back off in volume when you get to the bit you're not totally sure about, so unconsciously play more quietly - exactly at the point where you're supposed to shine.

DAMHIK, IJK OK? 

My own feeling is that digital overdrives don't sound quite right to me as the player, but no-one in an audience has ever noticed or cared once that sound is in the band mix - including guitarists whose opinions I've valued.

If you're playing for them and not yourself, just take the path of least resistance. If you're not playing for them, why are you up there? 

PC_Dave

TheBigDipper said:

I'm using the word "you" a bit here, but it's not aimed at the OP, it's all of us.

Playing in a covers band recreating hit songs for the pleasure of the audience?

"That guitar tone doesn't quite have the sponginess and presence of the original recording" said no audience member ever - especially after a couple of drinks. 

Any half-decent MFX that you have spent the time learning to use will be fine. Any small pedalboard with some basic "real" pedals will be fine. 

Spend your time learning to play your parts properly, not faffing with your sounds. The audience might not notice you didn't quite get the overdrive sound correct, because they'll be busy enjoying themselves. They will notice you back off in volume when you get to the bit you're not totally sure about, so unconsciously play more quietly - exactly at the point where you're supposed to shine.

DAMHIK, IJK OK? 

My own feeling is that digital overdrives don't sound quite right to me as the player, but no-one in an audience has ever noticed or cared once that sound is in the band mix - including guitarists whose opinions I've valued.

If you're playing for them and not yourself, just take the path of least resistance. If you're not playing for them, why are you up there? 

Appreciate all that, but I’ve been playing guitar for years and done hundreds of gigs with all sorts of crap kit and never been worried about what the audience thinks of my tone. My original question was around looking for less, more versatile kit, rather than the ever expanding collection of pedals and equipment. 

Also, as said before, I find I play much better if I am happy with the sounds if they’re close to what I’m trying to recreate. It’s not so the audience notice, it’s so I can play well and help the band sound good.

TheBigDipper

PC_Dave said:

TheBigDipper said:

<snip>

Appreciate all that, but I’ve been playing guitar for years and done hundreds of gigs with all sorts of crap kit and never been worried about what the audience thinks of my tone. My original question was around looking for less, more versatile kit, rather than the ever expanding collection of pedals and equipment. 

Also, as said before, I find I play much better if I am happy with the sounds if they’re close to what I’m trying to recreate. It’s not so the audience notice, it’s so I can play well and help the band sound good.

@PC_Dave I did understand that you know what you're doing. Hence my first sentence. From reading the thread this morning I got the feeling your original question had been sort of hijacked by the conversation - as is often the case for most threads...  

I'm in the camp that says "dump the real pedals and use an MFX", though, so I can't suggest any real pedals for you. That's what I did (HX FX using 4CM into amp) and it's working for me.