E flat tuning

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G4peiG4pei Frets: 7
The singer in my band has asked that we drop to Eb to help with his pitching. With forthcoming rehearsals and a few gigs in the bag, does anyone have any experience of transitioning from standard pitch? Just noodling for now and it sounded odd at first but I’m getting used to it but I’d be interested in how your guitars handled it, any tuning issues, did you need to change strings etc?
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Comments

  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26453
    I'd advise going up a gauge for the bottom three strings - eg moving from 9-42 to 9-46. That keeps tension on the chuggy strings, but makes it feel easier for the upper three.

    That won't equalise the tension, though, so you'll probably have to adjust the truss rod too.

    Eb (or drop-Db) is by far the best tuning, though. Guitars always sound better than they do in standard, IMO.
    <space for hire>
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  • I play 10s and wouldn’t change strings for Eb. Fairly regularly tune my Strat down a half step and like the slightly looser feel on the Strat scale length. Not as fond of it on my shorter Gibson scale length Heritage. If you play with a very low action usually you might get a bit of fret buzz creeping in but nothing a quarter turn of the truss rod shouldn’t fix.
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 3627
    I have two bands, one in standard tuning and one in Eb, and I seem to have spent most of lockdown flip-flopping between tunings trying to decide which guitar I’ll use in which band.  With one guitar (the Patrick Eggle Berlin Pro which has a floating trem) I need to adjust the trem claw screws by a quarter turn, other than that I just retune them as required.  After a couple of minutes play I forget about the string tension.
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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 4722
    G4pei said:
    The singer in my band has asked that we drop to Eb to help with his pitching. With forthcoming rehearsals and a few gigs in the bag, does anyone have any experience of transitioning from standard pitch? Just noodling for now and it sounded odd at first but I’m getting used to it but I’d be interested in how your guitars handled it, any tuning issues, did you need to change strings etc?
    Dropping down a semitone can sound nice. Every guitar responds to it in its own way. 

    Based on my limited experience with decent singers and much experience with mediocre ones, I'm more curious by the idea that the singer thinks your change will be the answer to his pitching issues (whatever they are). I'm unconvinced that it'll be successful. What effort (lessons, practice, etc) has the singer put into improving his vocal range, I wonder? A semitone isn't much of a stretch. 
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  • G4pei said:
    The singer in my band has asked that we drop to Eb to help with his pitching. With forthcoming rehearsals and a few gigs in the bag, does anyone have any experience of transitioning from standard pitch? Just noodling for now and it sounded odd at first but I’m getting used to it but I’d be interested in how your guitars handled it, any tuning issues, did you need to change strings etc?
    Dropping down a semitone can sound nice. Every guitar responds to it in its own way. 

    Based on my limited experience with decent singers and much experience with mediocre ones, I'm more curious by the idea that the singer thinks your change will be the answer to his pitching issues (whatever they are). I'm unconvinced that it'll be successful. What effort (lessons, practice, etc) has the singer put into improving his vocal range, I wonder? A semitone isn't much of a stretch. 
    True, but if any singer I was playing with suggested dropping a semitone would make them feel more comfortable and confident I’d do it in a heartbeat no questions asked.
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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 4722
    <snip>
    True, but if any singer I was playing with suggested dropping a semitone would make them feel more comfortable and confident I’d do it in a heartbeat no questions asked.
    Sure, so would I. They're mates, right? And then what about the next time, if it didn't solve the problem? That's been my experience, unfortunately...
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  • bobblehatbobblehat Frets: 531
    <snip>
    True, but if any singer I was playing with suggested dropping a semitone would make them feel more comfortable and confident I’d do it in a heartbeat no questions asked.
    Sure, so would I. They're mates, right? And then what about the next time, if it didn't solve the problem? That's been my experience, unfortunately...
    As a singer , the half a step down can make a huge difference. It can be much more comfortable. As a guitarist you just learn to play a song in whatever key its written in ie. it makes no difference. However for your "average" singer its not quite so easy to learn to sing in multiple different keys. That half a step can just make some songs more comfortable.
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  • CarpeDiemCarpeDiem Frets: 275
    I use a detune pedal (Digitech Drop) if I need to play in a lower key. This has made it easier to experiment if the singer isn't totally sure which key is within their vocal range.
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    I just go up a gauge.

    My Strat is in Eb and I went from 10s to 11s. Still feels slightly looser.
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  • G4peiG4pei Frets: 7
    Thanks to all for the great comments. I’m a forum virgin and I’m enjoying being able to interact and get advice from my peers. Very positive experience.
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  • CarpeDiemCarpeDiem Frets: 275
    G4pei said:
    Thanks to all for the great comments. I’m a forum virgin and I’m enjoying being able to interact and get advice from my peers. Very positive experience.
    Welcome to the forum! I'm constantly learning from others here, and it's a friendly place.
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  • BezzerBezzer Frets: 581
    bobblehat said:
    <snip>
    True, but if any singer I was playing with suggested dropping a semitone would make them feel more comfortable and confident I’d do it in a heartbeat no questions asked.
    Sure, so would I. They're mates, right? And then what about the next time, if it didn't solve the problem? That's been my experience, unfortunately...
    As a singer , the half a step down can make a huge difference. It can be much more comfortable. As a guitarist you just learn to play a song in whatever key its written in ie. it makes no difference. However for your "average" singer its not quite so easy to learn to sing in multiple different keys. That half a step can just make some songs more comfortable.
    This in spades! It can also be if there are a few songs in your set where you are at the far reach of your range just that little drop back can save your voice after a show.  It can allow for consistancy.  It can allow for a better tone if it starts a song starts to cross the break point of the voice.  Loads of good reasons to do it.

    Saying "no, get better!" to the singer is a strange approach.  There are limits to the human voice and extending the range can take months, if it's even possible (at some point it won't be).  Detuning a guitar on the other hand is a piece of **** and immediate.

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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    When I got ill in 2018, my voice upper register disappeared, well, dropped about 3 semitones.

    So I dropped my acoustic by a semi tone and that makes a lot of the songs I normally play singable.  
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23927
    Bezzer said:
    bobblehat said:
    <snip>
    True, but if any singer I was playing with suggested dropping a semitone would make them feel more comfortable and confident I’d do it in a heartbeat no questions asked.
    Sure, so would I. They're mates, right? And then what about the next time, if it didn't solve the problem? That's been my experience, unfortunately...
    As a singer , the half a step down can make a huge difference. It can be much more comfortable. As a guitarist you just learn to play a song in whatever key its written in ie. it makes no difference. However for your "average" singer its not quite so easy to learn to sing in multiple different keys. That half a step can just make some songs more comfortable.
    This in spades! It can also be if there are a few songs in your set where you are at the far reach of your range just that little drop back can save your voice after a show.  It can allow for consistancy.  It can allow for a better tone if it starts a song starts to cross the break point of the voice.  Loads of good reasons to do it.

    Saying "no, get better!" to the singer is a strange approach.  There are limits to the human voice and extending the range can take months, if it's even possible (at some point it won't be).  Detuning a guitar on the other hand is a piece of **** and immediate.

    This. Age comes into it too.

    When I was 20 and fronting a band we tuned to D standard as it suits my voice and I wasn’t straining on the highest notes. 

    Now I’m nearly 50 I’m in C standard as my range has lowered.


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  • TheBigDipperTheBigDipper Frets: 4722
    edited March 2021
    Oh dear. I didn't mean to upset any singers on here with my comment about key changes at the singers request. 

    It didn't come from the perspective of not understanding anything about how the human singing voice works. Or why we've all individually got a physical limit on what's possible with our vocal instrument. Or that it changes over time as our vocal folds age. 

    It comes from having been in too many bands with singers who didn't treat their voice as their instrument and didn't practice in the way that you or I might practice playing the guitar. They'd just turn up and wing it. 

    I've also been lucky enough to play with some fabulous singers who were a joy to be with. Different experience altogether.

    An anecdote. I used to live next door to the singer in a well-known '70s rock band still going today. After going to see Deep Purple (maybe 10 years ago, now) and watching Ian Gillan tear into the first three songs (sounding great) and then be almost unable to sing anything after that, I asked my neighbour why he could still do it yet Gillan could not. He smiled wickedly and said "That's because I am a singer and he is a vocalist". 
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 4027
    G4pei said:
    ...I’d be interested in how your guitars handled it, any tuning issues, did you need to change strings etc?
    For what it's worth I've worked out that there aren't any problems and no need to change string gauge, and I use 8s (25.5" neck length guitars).
    I say "worked out" because when we first did this (singer issue too) it didn't feel right and I got myself right fed up about it, but actually, it makes no odds. 
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  • I only ever play in Eb tuning for old Green Day stuff or to play (or try to play) SRV blues licks. I keep it with 10's.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    Eb tuning is very common for covers bands and also big bands. It makes the vocals so much easier to hit which is essential on long gruelling tours. U2, Def Lep, GnR, VH and loads of others have been doing it for more than 30 years. 

    I'm playing in 1Eb band now and 2 concert. I just use 10's for all guitars regardless. Sometimes it's fun to use the wrong guitar and transpose it in your head, piano songs written in Bb and F etc are much nicer to play in B and F# on guitar  so in one band I deliberately use the wrong guitar.
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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