Can you do this stretch, or am I just a bit pants?

UnclePsychosis

Hi guys

I was messing about earlier and stumbled my way into playing the "clean" guitar riff from Toxicity by System Of A Down. 

Assuming I worked it out right, the end of it goes like this: 

 
e|--------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------------|
G|--------------------------------------------------------|
D|-----------10--------12------12----10-------10---8-----8|
A|-------8---------8-------8--------------8-----------8-- |
E|--------------------------------------------------------|

My question is about the "stretch" where he plays the 8th fret A string closely followed by the 12th and 10th frets on the D string.
To me, it sounds like he keeps the 8th fret ringing whilst playing that bit on the D string.
Personally, I find that stretch almost impossible. is this a particularly tough one or is it just me?
tldr: Can you play the 8th fret A string and 12th fret D string and have both ring out?

Grangousier

Yes. 

(Don't have anything useful to add, but yes, it's mostly about relaxing your hand.)

digitalscream

Without wishing to be an asshole...yes, both with fingers 1, 2, and 4 and 1, 2,  and 3. Tried it with 2, 3, and 4 and that just seemed unnecessarily difficult and pointless.

Then again, a lot of my band's stuff has chords that involve stretches which help with that, even with my stumpy little fingers, eg (somewhat simplified):

e|--------------------------------------------------------|
B|---------------------------------------------------------|
G|----------9---9---10-9----10---9---7---------------------|
D|----------7---7---7--7----7----7---5--5--5--5--5---------|
A|----------5---5---5--5----5----5---3--2--3--2--3---------|
D|---0--0-0------------------------------------------------|

You might find it easier to practice a bit on the upper strings, and then move progressively down to get the hang of it.

Also: fixed the formatting in your post, because it was making me itch

TheBigDipper

I just tried it on a 25.5in scale length guitar and it was straightforward for me. I've got short fingers, too. I used my 1st finger to barre the 8th fret, my 3rd on the 10th fret and my 4th on the 12th fret. 

UnclePsychosis

Hmm, practice it is, then.

Curse my stumpy little digits! 

TheBigDipper

UnclePsychosis said:

Hmm, practice it is, then.

Curse my stumpy little digits! 

Every so often I see a pianist or guitarist with long, slim straight fingers and I hate them. 

stratman3142

Is your thumb in the middle of the back of the neck when you play it?

LastMantra

I've got quite big hands and can stretch OK. It's getting to them quickly and smoothly that's the problem. 

UnclePsychosis

stratman3142 said:

Is your thumb in the middle of the back of the neck when you play it?

Yes, but I find it creeping "up" which is probably part of the problem.

I think this is basically highlighting my complete lack of any proper discipline in my fretting technique. Shifting the guitar to a more "classical" position with it propped on my left knee and neck angled up instead of horizontal has definitely helped - I can definitely play it in that position.

I really need to make an effort to do this properly - particularly since I play bass too. I don't want to wreck my left hand and wrist with bad technique. 

stratman3142

UnclePsychosis said:

stratman3142 said:

Is your thumb in the middle of the back of the neck when you play it?

Yes, but I find it creeping "up" which is probably part of the problem.

I think this is basically highlighting my complete lack of any proper discipline in my fretting technique. Shifting the guitar to a more "classical" position with it propped on my left knee and neck angled up instead of horizontal has definitely helped - I can definitely play it in that position.

I really need to make an effort to do this properly - particularly since I play bass too. I don't want to wreck my left hand and wrist with bad technique. 

Possibly a strange comparison, but that shape reminds me of the Rick Parfitt 'pinky bounce' shape. He often appeared to tilt the guitar neck at a fairly steep upward angle, although that's possibly to compensate for his low slung guitar.

Teetonetal

UnclePsychosis said:

Hmm, practice it is, then.

Curse my stumpy little digits! 

Couple of thing here, don't try too hard to get your fingers curving onto the frets to play on finger tips. Keeping them flatter and less *grip* like helps the stretch stay big.

Try this. 

Hold your hand parallel to the ground. Palm up. Spread your fingers as wide as they go. Now curl your fingers as if you are gripping a ball, see how the the gap between your finger tips decreases as they curl? Trying to keep maximum spread is what you aim for.

Try the same thing holding the guitar and find that balance point where you retain fingertip spread.

I can play the example you showed at the first fret, where the stretch is bigger, without any problems and my hands are not large.

Danny1969

One thing I've learnt is even though you might not have long fingers (and I haven't) you can increase your finger stretch same as you can increase your finger strength and every other aspect. It's something I began doing a couple of years ago and now I can stretch so far I can get the notes to descend in pitch when I move up a string. 



Another thing I discovered, although not in that video is how useful your thumb can be and I've started using it to play the A string now rather than just the E string. I personally thing there's a lot to be said for using all the positions, as in don't always play with thumb behind neck but don't always play with thumb over the neck either. Keep mixing it up 

TheBigDipper

Danny1969 said:

One thing I've learnt is even though you might not have long fingers (and I haven't) you can increase your finger stretch same as you can increase your finger strength and every other aspect. It's something I began doing a couple of years ago and now I can stretch so far I can get the notes to descend in pitch when I move up a string. 

<snip>

Another thing I discovered, although not in that video is how useful your thumb can be and I've started using it to play the A string now rather than just the E string. I personally thing there's a lot to be said for using all the positions, as in don't always play with thumb behind neck but don't always play with thumb over the neck either. Keep mixing it up 

^This. Too many people try and tell us that there is only "one" hand position that we should aim to use. Rubbish. The hand position that works for the music you're playing is the one that you need at any particular time. 

stratman3142

TheBigDipper said:

Danny1969 said:

... The hand position that works for the music you're playing is the one that you need at any particular time. 

Very true. But, for the specific example given in the OP, thumb in middle of the neck works best for me.

TheBigDipper

stratman3142 said:

TheBigDipper said:

Danny1969 said:

... The hand position that works for the music you're playing is the one that you need at any particular time. 

Very true. But, for the specific example given in the OP, thumb in middle of the neck works best for me.

Yeah. Me too. It's pure dropped-wrist classical, between the D and G strings and behind the 9th fret.

clarkefan

Tip I came across on Youtube for practicing stretches, start out with the guitar positioned so that your fretting hand is relatively close to your face, and move to a more sensible position as your hand gets better at the stretch.  It was in a vid about the bastard Van Halen/ Ice Cream Man stretchy run, apparently EVH would take a knee on stage sometimes to get the guitar up to make the stretches. 

monquixote

stratman3142 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

stratman3142 said:

Is your thumb in the middle of the back of the neck when you play it?

Yes, but I find it creeping "up" which is probably part of the problem.

I think this is basically highlighting my complete lack of any proper discipline in my fretting technique. Shifting the guitar to a more "classical" position with it propped on my left knee and neck angled up instead of horizontal has definitely helped - I can definitely play it in that position.

I really need to make an effort to do this properly - particularly since I play bass too. I don't want to wreck my left hand and wrist with bad technique. 

Possibly a strange comparison, but that shape reminds me of the Rick Parfitt 'pinky bounce' shape. He often appeared to tilt the guitar neck at a fairly steep upward angle, although that's possibly to compensate for his low slung guitar.

Yeah that's what I was going to say.

It's kind of the standard Status Quo rocking from a 5th to a 6th 12 bar blues thing.

When I first started the guitar my teacher got me to do that Status Quo "Whatever you want" type riff starting from the 10th fret and then going down progressively a fret at a time to increase the stretch until I couldn't do it any more.

Roland

TheBigDipper said:

Danny1969 said:

... I personally thing there's a lot to be said for using all the positions, as in don't always play with thumb behind neck but don't always play with thumb over the neck either. Keep mixing it up 

^This. Too many people try and tell us that there is only "one" hand position that we should aim to use. Rubbish. The hand position that works for the music you're playing is the one that you need at any particular time. 

There are some songs where I use both thumb positions, on exactly the same barre chord, in different verses of the song. 

Teflon

I have nice long fingers, but there is no chance of me ever making that stretch. Although long, my fingers seem to curl inwards, and it makes stretches incredibly difficult. My pinky in particular is all but useless for guitar work. I think a lot of it comes down to how your tendons are arranged.  I've tried most of the stretching exercises on Youtube, but in most cases, I can't even make the shape for the starting point. Still enjoy playing though, and just have to find other ways of hitting the right notes!

Richardrichard

I find this really interesting, I wouldn't have considered that a stretch before reading this thread! Just trying it out, I can play 8 on the A, and up to 16 on the D without moving my index finger off the 8th fret. I'm afraid I can't offer any practical advice as to how, it just happens. I would listen to Danny though, seems to know what he's doing!

Barney

I have short fingers and can manage the stretch ok ...I think you have to make sure the hand is positioned right and thumb at the back of the neck rather than over the top ...