Which MacBook? Sorted

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SnapSnap Frets: 6256
edited May 2022 in Studio & Recording
Hi, 

I'm considering getting a MacBook for my daughter who is studying music. Mac, due to probably needing Logic. I know little about them tbh, other than they are expensive. 

Any suggestions as to model, spec would be appreciated. Initial thoughts were a MacBook Pro, new one, with the M1 chip, but I wonder if this is overkill? I appreciate that various bits of software will need to update to accommodate the new chip too. So, for that reason perhaps an i7 based system could be better with 16GB RAM
I'm used to PC, so worry that I don't know enough to gauge performance vs spec in the world of Mac. 

It will primarily be used to run a DAW and all the necessaries for degree level music & tech, so it needs to be up to scratch.


Thanks


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Comments

  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    M1 is cheaper than Intel, but it is new and doesnt yet work with everything.

    Does she need a laptop, desktops like the iMac perform very well.
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    cheers, yes, it needs to be a laptop
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    It's a bit of a minefield now as all the newer ones don't stand up to uni life very well. The USB C system used for charging and everything else is quite prone to mechanical and electronic damage and the proximity of some of the higher voltage rails to data rails means they don't cope with any kind of spill damage or even high humidity at all. Just using one in a steamy kitchen for a recipe can damage it. 
    So you kind of need to tell them that these machines are different and all her lecturers banging on about how good Macbook Pro's are for music and general uni are mainly talking about the older magsafe models made up to around 2016. 

    Apple care is essential as any repairs are very expensive. The 2 main points of failure aren't covered under warranty. Being mechanical damage ofUSB C socket and liquid damage. There are indicators on the motherboard, these are white when the machine leaves the factory but will turn red and invalidate the warranty if exposed to any kind of moisture. 

    Secondhand a used A1502 Retina from 2015  will be fine and cost around £400. Probably outlast a 2021 model too. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    You also will probbly need a USB-C port expander for Lan, HDMI/VGA, more USB-C & B ports (nd an SD card reader.
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    Thanks, this is all really useful. Much appreciated!
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  • bwetsbwets Frets: 161
    If you buy it through the Apple Education Store it should be cheaper. They used to include Apple Care for free also but no idea if they still do.
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    Thanks again, it now turns out that a Mac is not an absolute necessity after all. Good.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    Danny1969 said: 
    lecturers, banging on about how good Macbook Pros are for music and general uni, are mainly talking about the older magsafe models made up to around 2016.  
    I run Logic Pro on a 2011 i7 MBP with 16GB of RAM. 

    The OS is a couple of generations out of date but this does not hamper any of the software I use.
    Be seeing you.
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  • darcymdarcym Frets: 1297
    I've got a 13'' 2014 macbook pro with i7 16gm ram and critically I/O ports without massive docks.

    be happy to talk about letting that go, it's been my portable recording unit for a while.
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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085
    2nd hand Mac is the way to go , been using them 15 years now and none of the worries of windows older ones are great value and they just work . 
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  • ArchtopDaveArchtopDave Frets: 1367
    edited April 2021
    All I can say is that my daughter did a standard 4 year Scottish Undergraduate Degree, and then a 1 year Master's Postgraduate Degree using MacBook Pro's without problem. She is careful with stuff. Took advantage of Apple Education discount both to get the first MacBook Pro when she started as an Undergrad, and then a new one at the start of her Postgrad year. I took her original one off her for me own use, and it continues to function well.

    The only extra advice I would give is that she learnt how to open the MacBook Pro case so as to be able to give the inside a clean out of dust from time to time. A useful skill for keeping a MacBook Pro happy.
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  • I would recommend buying a mid 2012 Macbook pro, secondhand. They have all the ports, unlike the newer ones and they don't have retina screens which peel and may become unusable.
    Then, Buy 16 GB of RAM and a nice 500GB SSD and install them. 
    It's what I did and I'm happy with it.
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    thanks all, but tbh, having had a long look at lots of things, I think on balance, the best option is a new mid range windows laptop. You get a lot more for your money and I don't like the idea of buying something second hand, that already has years on it's clock.

    Main point of going the Mac route was if she needed Logic, but it turns out that is not compulsory. 
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Snap said:
    thanks all, but tbh, having had a long look at lots of things, I think on balance, the best option is a new mid range windows laptop. You get a lot more for your money and I don't like the idea of buying something second hand, that already has years on it's clock.

    Main point of going the Mac route was if she needed Logic, but it turns out that is not compulsory. 
    Good luck with that .... I had to try and find a Windows laptop for my daughters friend  recently and I literally couldn't find anything new that wasn't built poorly for less than £850 ish.  There are so great machines, particularly from Lenovo, HP and Dell but these are all corporate machines and over a grand to buy new. 

    You can get what looks like a good spec for around £600 but the corners are cut on the quality of the plastics, hinges, DC socket, battery charge tech etc. 

    It's a real minefield and I'm just glad I'm not involved in laptop sales anymore, only repairs. 

    Whatever you get make sure it has a 3 year warranty. And remember things like DC sockets and hinges aren't covered under warranty if they break as it's considered missuse and poor handling. Although I'm not involved in sales anymore I still make the phonecalls, telling someone the 18 month old laptop their family brought them to get them through 3 years of uni needs a new board and it's not available as a service part is not a fun phone call 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    Danny1969 said:
    Snap said:
    thanks all, but tbh, having had a long look at lots of things, I think on balance, the best option is a new mid range windows laptop. You get a lot more for your money and I don't like the idea of buying something second hand, that already has years on it's clock.

    Main point of going the Mac route was if she needed Logic, but it turns out that is not compulsory. 
    Good luck with that .... I had to try and find a Windows laptop for my daughters friend  recently and I literally couldn't find anything new that wasn't built poorly for less than £850 ish.  There are so great machines, particularly from Lenovo, HP and Dell but these are all corporate machines and over a grand to buy new. 

    You can get what looks like a good spec for around £600 but the corners are cut on the quality of the plastics, hinges, DC socket, battery charge tech etc. 

    It's a real minefield and I'm just glad I'm not involved in laptop sales anymore, only repairs. 

    Whatever you get make sure it has a 3 year warranty. And remember things like DC sockets and hinges aren't covered under warranty if they break as it's considered missuse and poor handling. Although I'm not involved in sales anymore I still make the phonecalls, telling someone the 18 month old laptop their family brought them to get them through 3 years of uni needs a new board and it's not available as a service part is not a fun phone call 
    Cheers. When it comes to windows stuff, I think I am pretty well versed. When I had my own company I ran all the IT stuff up until pretty recently. Nothing I have bought in 20 years has bust unduly. The only problems we have had have been down to spillages! Usually they are fatal in my experience. I got the kids a couple of HP laptops for about 500 quid each, maybe 5 years ago and they are still going actually. Well they were until one ended up bathed in water. Replaced that with a Huawei for around 600 quid and that has been v good to date. Hope they aren't famous last words......

    Best laptop I've bought is without doubt a Dell XPS 13. Superb. I'd have that over a Macbook any day. I think power, spec and quality per pound is all round better with the XPS. But yes, not cheap. I got an i7 with a 4k screen for about a grand in 2016. Still going strong and it has been round the world many times, battered about too. 

    Having said all that though, there is something tempting about a macbook!
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  • jamesguitarjamesguitar Frets: 141
    If you do go the MacBook route, then they really do hold their value - especially if you go second hand. Even 2011 MacBooks fetch a bit of money on the second hand market.

    Would also be worth noting that pretty much every serious producer out there is well versed in Logic or is at least running it, so it’s a huge plus if you’re passing on a project to be mixed or tweaked by someone else. Cubase (on PC) is very good for what it is though, just not so widely used on a pro level - so she’d need to start learning from scratch again if she ever switched to Logic or Pro Tools. 
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    As a music making tool, the  2012 Macbook pro gets my vote.
    Just at the point the OS had to be upgraded to get the new Logic sampler, and just before the point the screens went retina, and the ports got removed.
    I try to do my mixing between Win and Mac, because a new Mac will be unobtanium for me when my 2012 breaks.
    I will cry.
    And I hate Windows for the update policy, my Win machine (Asus Zenbook) has got stuck in a loop of downloading, applying then un applying the 2004 update, since early 2020, which I worked out has cost me over 50 hours of wasted time-where should I send my bill??
    It is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anybody trying to get stuff done, and when it happens, I am sure they are trying to kill my machine with heat-fans are raging during the entire process.
    You can't stop the updates, and I have already lost a Win XP machine to the burn.
    2012 MBP for the win, but obviously a good one is now hard to find.
    Such a shame really, they had it right for a short time, and I think they are trying to get back there with the M1, but it is early days and the price is now high.
    good luck.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    andy_k said:
    As a music making tool, the  2012 Macbook pro gets my vote.
    Just at the point the OS had to be upgraded to get the new Logic sampler, and just before the point the screens went retina, and the ports got removed.
    I try to do my mixing between Win and Mac, because a new Mac will be unobtanium for me when my 2012 breaks.
    I will cry.
    And I hate Windows for the update policy, my Win machine (Asus Zenbook) has got stuck in a loop of downloading, applying then un applying the 2004 update, since early 2020, which I worked out has cost me over 50 hours of wasted time-where should I send my bill??
    It is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anybody trying to get stuff done, and when it happens, I am sure they are trying to kill my machine with heat-fans are raging during the entire process.
    You can't stop the updates, and I have already lost a Win XP machine to the burn.
    2012 MBP for the win, but obviously a good one is now hard to find.
    Such a shame really, they had it right for a short time, and I think they are trying to get back there with the M1, but it is early days and the price is now high.
    good luck.
    I think the A1398 retina , which was introduced in 2012 was the best model they made. Although the ram became non upgradable that did stop the issues with the ram slots needing resoldering on the previous unibody model and the move to the SSD slotted drive removed the issue with the SATA cable going faulty on the Unibody model. 

    The one to get for music is the A1398 or 13" version A1502 with Intel graphics. This gets rid of any issues with reballing overheated GPU BGA chips. It runs cooler, battery life is better and the fans stay quiet. There is one issue with a small chip that controls the Intel GPU voltage but it's an easy fix and I've detailed what it is and how to fix it in my community repair thread page https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/192351/the-community-repair-thread/p3

    It's a shame these great models were retired and replaced with the Touchbar series. I have one of those from 2017 and it's nowhere near as nice to use as the older magsafe models. 

    I would agree with  @jamesguitar too, you really need a knowledge of Protools or Logic to work professionally with others. You can certainly use DAWS like Reaper and Studio One yourself and there are tricks you can use to ensure compatibility, such as consolidating tracks and stems but for exchanging projects from professional studio to studio PT or Logic are the expected format. Trouble is PT is expensive now and they have removed the starter options with the exception of the garbage Protools First  ... when I started out I was able to use Protools LE which gave me the knowledge to use the software so when I moved up to PT Mix and then HD I was well used to the workflow. 
    Logic is actually very cheap for what you get. 


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    Thanks @Danny1969 , good to know.
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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    Out of interest, has anyone have any experience or heard reliable reports about Carillon?

    Laptop music PC (carillonac1.com)

    I like the look of their 19" rack desktops, but wondering how their laptops might compare against the usual names, given they are allegedly build specifically for music applications
    Some of the gear, some idea

    Trading feedback here
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