Which MacBook? Sorted

What's Hot
2

Comments

  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    Trude said:
    Out of interest, has anyone have any experience or heard reliable reports about Carillon?

    Laptop music PC (carillonac1.com)

    I like the look of their 19" rack desktops, but wondering how their laptops might compare against the usual names, given they are allegedly build specifically for music applications
    I remember the original desktops and rack ones form the early 2000's ... a few I knew had them and although pricey they were well laid out and used good quality components. 

    Almost no one designs and makes their own laptops. It's a massive manufacturing tooling nightmare so the way the industry works is the brands we know, like Dell and HP etc are actually built by one of  the the big 4 OEM giants like Compal or Quanta. Then they are badged and sold. A very large company like Dell or HP will have their stock highly customised to their requirements such as custom BIOS with boot diags etc and different code in the SMC chip.  Smaller buyers like high street chains will basically get the basic factory model which they can choose the ram, CPU and harddrive and then basically stick their own badge on it. Some of these basic chassis's are around for years and I often see the same machine sold as Acer, Asus, Packard Bell etc. It's kind of handy I can rob bits of one to fix another but that quality of these generic chassis are generally really poor.

    So I suspect a Carillion laptop will be a basic OEM chassis offering from  Compal, Quanta, Foxcon etc that they have carefully configured in terms of CPU, ram, SSD and rotational drive. But the plastics are likely to be average laptop quality, not the milled alloy of a Macbook Pro because that's the expensive part to do right. 

    www.2020studios.co.uk 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • goldtopgoldtop Frets: 6101
    ^ You'd hope that the fans were chosen (or even custom-made) for low dBs to suit musicians, at least.

    (TBH, the no-fan-at-all feature of the M1 Macbook Air is what sold me.)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    goldtop said:
    ^ You'd hope that the fans were chosen (or even custom-made) for low dBs to suit musicians, at least.

    (TBH, the no-fan-at-all feature of the M1 Macbook Air is what sold me.)
    Well one disadvantage almost all Windows laptops have is that they are made of plastic. That's a poor conductor of heat and thus entirely dependent on the fan to move the heat. With an alloy body the whole laptop can conduct the heat and there are pressure points between a Macbook Pro motherboard and the unibody to aid this. 

    Dell tried a system of fitting the keyboard with a heatsink in it's Inspiron 8XXX and Latitude C8XX range ... the keyboard was made using little metal cantilever clips instead of the normal plastic, the thinking being they could take the heat and not deform. Trouble is the conductive counting used to make the key press connections couldn't and the keyboards constantly failed. 

    The stumbling block is metal. If you build a laptop out of metal you have strength, great EMI shielding, great even heat transfer and very strong fixing because you can just drill and tap the actual alloy rather than insert brass inserts. Trouble is it's so expensive to do compared to building a laptop from injection moulded plastic. 

    This basic bit of engineering is often overlooked when people compare Macbook pro's.  to Windows laptops. They quote the specs of the CPU and ram etc but never the fact ones made of plastic and ones milled alloy. 

    I do think there is a market for a really good Windows laptop made in this fashion but it would cost more than a Macbook Pro due to the limited demand. Some machines kind of get half way there ... top end ThinkPads and Precision mobile workstations but they always fall short of using a full metal construction ... it's just too expensive. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • Danny1969 said:

    It's a shame these great models were retired and replaced with the Touchbar series. I have one of those from 2017 and it's nowhere near as nice to use as the older magsafe models. 

    Yeah, I have high spec (for the time) late 2012 iMac and retina late 2013 macbook pro. They're both still going strong with enough umph for my office productivity, simple music and midi recording (abelton) and 2D photography needs.

    I had been thinking of maybe replacing the i7 macbook pro with an M1 when that comes out, but actually I really don't need to. Perhaps best to wait for the second iteration of that machine unless the first attempt knocks it out of the park.

    The shame about the iMac is that Big Sur is the first OS upgrade that it won't take, so I guess I've only got one more year of official security updates to Catalina...if it wasn't for that I wouldn't even be thinking of upgrading it for the work I do with it.
    Link to my trading feedback: http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/58787/
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    My fallback windows machine is an Asus Zenbook, which is pretty much a Macbook air clone, and I would recommend it as a good machine, except it is completely un upgradable, and came with a measly 4 gig ram.
    I use it as a mobile recording machine, with a Zoom R16 as an IO, into Reaper.
    It works fine, in a limited way, but now the power jack has become a little unreliable, and the dreaded windows updates take up far too much of my time with it, I really need to go in and try and disable all the online crap that goes on, when we get back to being able to actually do any sort of work again.
    Might be a model to keep an eye out for, if you can find a decent spec at a good price, full metal construction and SSD, so ticks a few boxes.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Van_HaydenVan_Hayden Frets: 437
    You'll get the M1 MacBook Pro for about £1170 on education, get AppleCare cover for her time at Uni and forget about it. (and insurance!). You could add extra memory for £180. 

    If she's just using logic and the on board pluggins and instruments the M1 is impressive. Been using an 16GB M1 Mac mini, it's impressive running Logic. 

    Having said all that, if it's anything like the Uni I do a bit of lecturing at there shouldn't be an expectation for students to need their own gear. There will be/should be enough provision for her to do the basics on the uni clusters and studios - granted it does involve more time management than having your own stuff!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ArchtopDaveArchtopDave Frets: 1367

    Having said all that, if it's anything like the Uni I do a bit of lecturing at there shouldn't be an expectation for students to need their own gear. There will be/should be enough provision for her to do the basics on the uni clusters and studios - granted it does involve more time management than having your own stuff!
    This wasn't my daughter's recent experience at Uni. Having your own laptop was a necessity, and having your own printer was extremely useful, as many of the Uni printers for Students' use, which were based in the Library, were often out of action, and there were people queuing to use the functioning ones.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • gusman2xgusman2x Frets: 919
    All this talk of running older MacBook Pros, what could I get that would still run ableton 10? I absolutely despise windows computers for doing music, as every few months I have some sort of driver issue, and that’s with updates turned off, and the computer NEVER going on the internet. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    gusman2x said:
    All this talk of running older MacBook Pros, what could I get that would still run ableton 10? I absolutely despise windows computers for doing music, as every few months I have some sort of driver issue, and that’s with updates turned off, and the computer NEVER going on the internet. 
    That will run on El Cap so will work on quite an old Macbook, like a 2008 onwards. You could get one used for around £200. I would recommend going for a Retina model though, like a late 2012 or newer. For 13" an A1502 is a good bet or for 15" an A1398 at £400 ish
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • LooseMooseLooseMoose Frets: 908
    I was thinking of moving my 15” retina if that is of interest? Drop me a PM if so and I can send more info!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Van_HaydenVan_Hayden Frets: 437

    Having said all that, if it's anything like the Uni I do a bit of lecturing at there shouldn't be an expectation for students to need their own gear. There will be/should be enough provision for her to do the basics on the uni clusters and studios - granted it does involve more time management than having your own stuff!
    This wasn't my daughter's recent experience at Uni. Having your own laptop was a necessity, and having your own printer was extremely useful, as many of the Uni printers for Students' use, which were based in the Library, were often out of action, and there were people queuing to use the functioning ones.
    That's a shame, it does depend how well funded the uni is. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 4641
    Danny1969 said:
    Snap said:
    thanks all, but tbh, having had a long look at lots of things, I think on balance, the best option is a new mid range windows laptop. You get a lot more for your money and I don't like the idea of buying something second hand, that already has years on it's clock.

    Main point of going the Mac route was if she needed Logic, but it turns out that is not compulsory. 
    Good luck with that .... I had to try and find a Windows laptop for my daughters friend  recently and I literally couldn't find anything new that wasn't built poorly for less than £850 ish.  There are so great machines, particularly from Lenovo, HP and Dell but these are all corporate machines and over a grand to buy new. 

    You can get what looks like a good spec for around £600 but the corners are cut on the quality of the plastics, hinges, DC socket, battery charge tech etc. 

    It's a real minefield and I'm just glad I'm not involved in laptop sales anymore, only repairs. 

    Whatever you get make sure it has a 3 year warranty. And remember things like DC sockets and hinges aren't covered under warranty if they break as it's considered missuse and poor handling. Although I'm not involved in sales anymore I still make the phonecalls, telling someone the 18 month old laptop their family brought them to get them through 3 years of uni needs a new board and it's not available as a service part is not a fun phone call 
    I spent about £900 on a Lenovo, Ideapad 720 I think it was.  All aluminium case, decent SSD. Port connectivity is a bit limited and the screen is okay but not amazing, but it’s been very reliable and stable after 3 years of daily use, including all day at work and backpacks / trains etc to get to the office.  Very stable for music.
    I think that price point is where you get away from the plastic cases and weak interfaces, although not sure what is available today.

    When I bought it I checked that the ram was upgradable / not soldered, the screen and keyboard were easily replaced and the case was metal - I think those are 3 decent prerequisites when looking for a laptop.

    At some point I may consider an Apple Laptop but at present I’d still worry about their robustness and repairability.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    You'll get the M1 MacBook Pro for about £1170 on education, get AppleCare cover for her time at Uni and forget about it. (and insurance!). You could add extra memory for £180. 

    If she's just using logic and the on board pluggins and instruments the M1 is impressive. Been using an 16GB M1 Mac mini, it's impressive running Logic. 

    Having said all that, if it's anything like the Uni I do a bit of lecturing at there shouldn't be an expectation for students to need their own gear. There will be/should be enough provision for her to do the basics on the uni clusters and studios - granted it does involve more time management than having your own stuff!
    I'm coming back round to this now. Also the fact that Logic is a complete bargain too. What are the thoughts on spec? 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    Update
    My daughter now has an unconditional offer from Salford Uni to do the Creative Music Technology degree. 
    We have now been twice to check out facilities: they blew my mind. The new music dept building is only 5 years old, has 6 fully kitted out studios, each centred on a huge audient analogue desk. 2 performance spaces, one of which is the rather lovely Victorian Peel Hall. Mac tuition room has over 30 stations in it, and there are more (fully kitted with drums and backline) practice rooms than I have seen anywhere. 450 music students there. I'd no idea of the size of the faculty at all. 

    The DAWs that are mainly focused on are Logic and Pro Tools. So, it appears I will have to bite the bullet and go for some form of Macbook. My view is buy right, buy once and it will last for a long time. 

    A proud dad, soon to be parting with eye watering amounts of money!

    I've been looking a the Pros and Airs. Ouch, they are pricey. thinking about a 14" MBP. Is the RAM upgrade advisable, or will it do the biz on 8GB? I read that the M1 is clever in how it uses RAM
    0reaction image LOL 2reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    Lucky thing! I did Electroacoustics at Salford (92-96) before they started doing the music tech courses. I would’ve killed to get onto a course like that!
    Some of the gear, some idea

    Trading feedback here
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • The 14” M1 Pro comes with 16GB as standard and would be a fantastic choice. Loads of power, beautiful and robust design as well as being a total pleasure to use which is a surprisingly difficult combination to find!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Trude said:
    Lucky thing! I did Electroacoustics at Salford (92-96) before they started doing the music tech courses. I would’ve killed to get onto a course like that!
    Hey I did that course, '88-'91! :)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    The 14” M1 Pro comes with 16GB as standard and would be a fantastic choice. Loads of power, beautiful and robust design as well as being a total pleasure to use which is a surprisingly difficult combination to find!
    Great. Sort of what I need to know, but my bank balance doesn't!
    At least we can use the Unidays discount too.

    Reluctant to go a size smaller on the screen really, she's using a 15.6" Laptop at moment, and 13.3. would be way too small. 14 is a good compromise, and more portable, which is important for a student. I imagine she will be using it for recording live too.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • andy_kandy_k Frets: 818
    I finished the same course 2019, as a mature student.
    I got about half way through the first year before I picked up a second hand 2012 13 inch MBP, ( for Logic ) and over the next year or so I maxed out ram to 16 gig, and put in a 2tb drive instead of the cd drive.
    I used the Uni pcs / macs while I was there, but it was good to be able to work on projects at home.
    It was the same environment re DAWs, a continual battle between which was best, and about half way through the course I switched to Reaper, I realised PT would not be sustainable without the student discount, and it was mainly used there because it was tied in to some Avid studio equipment, which was continually breaking, quite a frustrating experience.
    Re- Logic, I still have it on my machine ( same machine, still going strong ), but decided it didn't work for me when they decided to update to a newer sampler, after using EXS for years, I tried to get into the new version, but soon hit a few bugs that made it impossible to invest a lot of time in.
    I honestly found, about half way through, that the steer towards the 2 big boys felt a bit insidious, obviously a lot of money at stake with a large class all requiring hardware, but the steer to PT, and inevitably Waves software, was obviously being pushed.
    Maybe I was a little jaded going in, but it was a bit hard to go along with a lot of the messaging that went on, expensive hardware and software tends to weed out the poorer sections of society, and there is a lot of up front investment in music production, with very few financial returns possible.
    I think you are wise to give your daughter a head start, with a nice laptop, but you should also factor in some insurance, and this probably should include Apple care, I see a lot of praise for the hardware, but try searching for 'X' problems, and you will see it can be a lottery.
    Also, try and budget in some stuff like MU membership, and PT and Waves subscriptions, just to see what the annual costs can be, in my case, I found the Slate package was amazing value and I still use it.
    I also found some of the younger, regular students had no idea, when it came to looking after equipment, phones and laptops seemed to be handled with no care, almost as if they were disposable items, which I guess they are - if you can afford to replace them easily.
    It was quite sad to see some of the students with the base model MB Air, which was not really up to the task with ram and storage, they looked cool though, but they must have struggled to get any music production work done on them.
    I found it better to carry a cheap chromebook around the campus, and only used my own MBP in the studios when I was recording stuff there, everything else was carried on memory sticks and worked on on the Uni equipment.
    Just a few tips, it is an exciting time for her, wish her luck.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    @andy_k thanks for all that, really useful to know. 
    So honest answers, did you enjoy the course?? 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.