Deluxe reverb and Mid range tweaks

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  • ravirajaniravirajani Frets: 42
    tFB Trader
    If you like the blackface tone with more midrange, how about a Vibroverb?

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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    edited April 2021
    @ravirajani lovely amp. But 40w no master volume is too loud sorry. Plus I want something that's a bit more grab and go.

    Nice job on the vid!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    AndyJP said:
    @ravirajani lovely amp. But 40w no master volume is too loud sorry. Plus I want something that's a bit more grab and go.
    They're actually not that loud, or that heavy - even with two speakers, the sensitivity is a bit below the Deluxe's 12", and they certainly don't sound like twice the amp. The extra power and 6L6s do give a bit more clarity, but it's certainly nothing like going to the Pro Reverb, which really does sound like a 'double Deluxe'.

    Have you thought about fitting a Deluxe with 6L6s and a solid-state rectifier? That tightens them up a fair bit and increases the headroom a little.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    @ICBM nah, I've got my victory for when I need to be louder. Your fav amp ;)

    I like the sound of the 65ri tbh. Might see if can hunt one down. I recently sold the Supro and wanting to replace it with something.

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  • Rowby1Rowby1 Frets: 1258
    ICBM said:

    Have you thought about fitting a Deluxe with 6L6s and a solid-state rectifier? That tightens them up a fair bit and increases the headroom a little.
    Is that a fairly straightforward thing? Would the amp need rebiasing? 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Rowby1 said:

    Is that a fairly straightforward thing? Would the amp need rebiasing? 
    It’s usually just within the range of the trimmer on a DRRI. Max the bias voltage and it should be OK - you can run the 6L6s a little hotter than you would in a Twin or one of the other standard 6L6 amps because the plate voltage is lower and the amp can’t produce more than about 25W, so it doesn’t stress them as hard.

    It does actually produce slightly more power despite what would normally happen with an impedance change from 6V6s to 6L6s, because a stock DR is quite badly mismatched for its speaker, and in fact 6L6s are closer. It’s this mismatch that mostly causes the characteristic flubby sound, not the 6V6s themselves.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Decades ago I bought two UK made Celestion Classic 80 Speakers and installed them in both an 83 “Rivera” Fender Concert and my 74 Deluxe (I have never been a great fan of most stock fender speakers). I really liked the sound of these in both Amps. I would say there were more mids and a very slight “smoothing” of tone generally but they worked really well for me. I wouldn't say they changed the essential character of the Amps though and I still prefer the sound of the Vib/ Rev channel of the Deluxe with this speaker. With the advent of my more regular use of pedal / multi effects boards 20 odd years ago I changed over to using the Normal channel of the Deluxe and changed the speaker to a Jensen C12N, which sounds very good with this channel and maybe a little lighter in weight (not sure) which always helps at my age ! I’ve kept the Classic 80s though as I have “ plans” for them.  Good suggestions by others so far. Good luck with your endeavours.
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    Cheers all for the tips!

    @ICBM you know your deluxe reverbs!


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    AndyJP said:

    @ICBM you know your deluxe reverbs!

    I have a love-hate relationship with them :).

    I love the natural sound, but hate the way they fart out at just too low a volume to be fully usable with a band, with the range out sounds I want. I know a lot of people won't understand that, but there are two sounds I use that just don't work with a stock one - clean (meaning *no clipping*, no matter how hard you hit the strings), and heavy rhythm crunch like from a Mesa V-Twin pedal. Yes, I know these are not what most people would want a Deluxe for :). But I do... and I've played through lots of them and found it difficult and frustrating.

    The 6L6/solid-state rectifier mod helps a lot though, it makes them just about enough.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BabonesBabones Frets: 1204
    edited April 2021
    ICBM said:
    AndyJP said:
    @ICBM his argument for a v30 is tighten the bass, boost the mids and tame the highs.
    It does all that, but to me it does it far too much and takes away the point of having a Fender amp in the first place.
    I don't know. Isn't it yourself who decides the point? Personally, I like Fender amps into Celestion speakers (eg Fender head into 4x12 cab with Celestion V30/H30/Greenbacks. Yes, I also appreciate Fenders into classic more scooped speakers too for cleaner to very light overdrive with reverb, but if you're someone who's not trying to 'nail' someone else's sound and trying to do your own thing, go for it. I'll say that i like dirty sounds, so i like what Celestions do when you add dirt especially fuzz to a robust Fender base tone.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Babones said:

    I don't know. Isn't it yourself who decides the point? Personally, I like Fender amps into Celestion speakers (eg Fender head into 4x12 cab with Celestion V30/H30/Greenbacks. Yes, I also appreciate Fenders into classic more scooped speakers too for cleaner to very light overdrive with reverb, but if you're someone who's not trying to 'nail' someone else's sound and trying to do your own thing, go for it. I'll say that i like dirty sounds, so i like what Celestions do when you add dirt especially fuzz to a robust Fender base tone.
    A lot of assumptions there ;). I'm not trying to 'nail' anyone's tone - where did I say I was? I just don't like what V30s do to a Fender amp, to me they take away most of what makes a Fender sound like a Fender - and I do like overdriven Fender sounds, I'm one of the (apparently) few people who like the Hotrod Deluxe overdrive channel, the 'Evil Twin' and the old Fender Concert lead channel...

    I like V30s in Mesa Rectifiers though.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BabonesBabones Frets: 1204
    I wasn't assuming anything about you. Just commenting on the point of having a Fender, ie most likely to get that Fender sound heard on a million records.

    For the record, I think the newer HRD OD channel is fine. I think the older/originals were a bit marmite maybe.
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  • 4on64on6 Frets: 86
    edited April 2021
    Years ago I ran a 74 SF deluxe that I got blackfaced by Brinsley Schwartz. He said the Utah speaker was a bit tired and they’d never been particularly great so I put in a v30 that I’d had in an HRD before. 
    So by coincidence I had this. I loved it. It was my best friend on loads of gigs with a 5 peice in a pub.... rocknroll.. bit of soul.. bit of pub blues/rock.. with a Fulldrive and a bit of echobaby .. really put me in the zone so often. .. but in a 7-10 peice with horns and keyboards doing functions etc... it didn’t cut it....and to underline ICBMs comments ... when it didn’t .. it really sounded pants! Trying to play that “le freak” riff with a fuzzy farty mess is no fun. I depped with a load of bands and rarely got put through the PA. Eventually, after much experimentation (including a Redbox out to an AER 60) I traded for a Redplate... amazing amp in many ways... it got damn close but it was never the big sonic hug that I got from the deluxe when it was on song... Redplate went to pay some debts a few years ago... I’ve had a SF late 70s Vibrolux since.... it was superb ... again WHEN it was at its ideal volume...but sounded even more pants than the Deluxe at just clipping levels until it saturated more and things even out ... Vibbys gone to Romania now...and a year ago I bought a Headstrong Lil King S (BF Princeton circuit with 6l6 25watt o/p) which (of course) I’ve had very little chance to gig but I’m really hoping is pretty much IT. I also have a Lil Dawg Choco which is a Brownface Deluxe circuit... that’s a really great amp but very different as stated...I might even end up running the 2 side by side when I can... now that’ll probably put a BIG smile on my mush!
    My general point is that I love original SF Fenders when you can get them in their ideal volume range... Deluxes probably most of all (Ive had a Deluxe, a Vibby, a Pro and back in the day ..a Princeton) but their edge of breakup is often an abrasive mess that might have its place in garage punk but probably not much else. I’ve never owned an original Blackface  ... I’m guessing maybe they breakup slightly differently because of the subtle circuit revisions?? This Lil King certainly seems to go into clipping much softer somehow. It sounds great wound up through an attenuator...so maybe that’s what the modern boutique boys are getting right... after all..Leo never designed them to distort. 
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  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 9448
    Bang a pedal in front, or even better a Boss EQ 200. Job done.
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    Yeah boss ge7. Sorted!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    4on6 said:

    My general point is that I love original SF Fenders when you can get them in their ideal volume range... Deluxes probably most of all (Ive had a Deluxe, a Vibby, a Pro and back in the day ..a Princeton) but their edge of breakup is often an abrasive mess that might have its place in garage punk but probably not much else.
    This is why my favourite BF/SF is a Silverface Twin with master volume. I prefer the 100W ones, but the 135s are OK too. The MV means that if you want it you can get light breakup that *isn't* the result of pushing the power section and sounds good, and the big power section and 12" speakers ensure good headroom and absolutely no clipping if you don't want it.

    Of course the disadvantage is that you have to carry the thing! Which is why I've never owned one, only used them as the amp of choice in rehearsal rooms and hired backline gigs. (Although I did own a pair of Mesa Trem-o-verbs, which are actually even heavier.) I like the Pro Reverb a lot too, but it's almost the same weight as the Twin.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 219
    Thx for all the advice guys. Much appreciated.  In a nutshell I don't this a deluxe reverb is the right amp for me. I'm looking into something more mid range focused like the tweeds.  I don't like using drive pedals and like to use my volume control on my Gibson. So maybe tweed is a better route.
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