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Zoom G11 - starting to have more respect for it & seriously thinking about G11 as a gigging tool.
There have been previous threads on this, so I'll get the following out the way first
1. I don't yet own one nor have I tried one
2. I'm not remotely thinking of this as a true Helix competitor. I don't need parallel paths or multiple amps etc
3. The presets are dreadful - Zoom should have got a pro in to put these together, not a monkey.
4. It's looks are shall we say somewhat 'idiosyncratic', old school, multicoloured, not clean lines etc etc
5. The price is way OTT - currently at £699 although oddly I saw deals at £599 even a couple of days ago that no longer seem to be there. IMO top price new should be £499-549 tops, and I'm willing to bet that in the next 12 months prices will drop & used prices will be around £300-350. Why? Well, not the biggest success story Zoom has ever had, and whilst there are a lot of dedicated Zoom fans, resales simply won't compete with Helix and there is a 'street cred' theme here too. The new G6 type unit is where Zoom is now targeting its market (which I'm not interested in).
I have a Pod Go that utilises Helix modelling, that I bought to 'entertain' me over lock-down and whilst far from perfect, has been a lot of fun, sounds really good, and I had half an eye that this might be able to replace my trusty Vox Tonelab SE for gigging duties. We're not back into band practice/gigging quite yet so the jury is out here, but I had my second Phizer jab yesterday and after 21/6 fingers crossed we'll begin to see things cautiously getting back to some kind of 'normality'.
So, why am I even thinking about the Zoom G11 as a gigging unit?
Well, the more I read and the more videos I watch, the more I'm convinced that this puppy has the easiest and best live use functionality of any MFX currently out there and is where I think Zoom has got it right. And its this that appeals to me.
1. It has a separate set of amp controls and amp LCD window, with led position markers that can be seen on dimply lit stages. It's wholly independent of all the FX sections and means regardless of patch, signal chain etc, you can instantly tweak eg gain, volume, treble etc in an instance by the turn of a dial without having to press a single button or enter a single menu. This instant tweakability is what I loved about gigging my Valvetronix AD120VTX rig - DSP modelling sophistication but that worked simply like a traditional amp.
2. The FX blocks are just like a series of stomp pedals with real knobs to tweak parameters - this simple stomp box approach is one of the things that folk like @ICBM love about the Boss ME50, 70, 80 units etc and I fully agree with that sentiment. Although you can only see 5 at a time, you can have up to (DSP permitting) 9 effects plus an amp. In a covers band, for gigging, you need patch-naming - a big omission in the Boss units IMO, but covered in the G11. You can only see 5 at a time but there is a foot operated scroll for easily moving these along and switching on/off or tweaking any FX. Plus you have an expression pedal too.
3. The touch screen may not be the most modern graphics around, but its fast, functional, and eminently practical that makes setting up the G11 and choosing display preferences really fast and easy.
4. It's so simple & intuitive to use that you can start using it for basic set ups even without having to refer to the manual.
5. The floor control re switching fx on/off, and moving around, is very well thought through, it's well 'lit' & makes G11 very quick & easy to use live.
6. Modelling quality is actually pretty much up there (just disregard the awful factory presets!) and it has multiple IR capability. Regardless of personal preferences/opinions for Line 6, Mooer, Boss, Vox Zoom amp models, there really isn't a massive difference nowadays, certainly not live in a band mix, and it's all down to tweaking, cab/IR models etc.
7. DSP cost is displayed and G11 is a good 25% more powerful than the new Zoom G6.
8. 5 minute stereo looper and some really quite good sounding rhythms mean this could be a fun unit to play at home.
Interesting comments from one G11 user:
"There are a lot of intangibles that are super cool about the G11 that you won't realize until you've used it. For instance, when auditioning IRs, you still have access to all the encoders while you are scrolling through the list of IRs. So you just touch the IR you want to hear, and can simulataneously tweak the amp controls, the boost pedal, the EQ blocks, etc, etc. Its like having a real effect board without any menu diving. Makes it very easy to audition different IRs and effects. On every other FX processor, once you select a new IR or effect, you have to navigate to whatever amp/effect it is you want to change (the IR menu goes away), and then if you don't like it, you have to navigate back to the IR block. etc etc. Stuff gets done on the G11 50x faster."
So, if the price comes down sufficiently to a level that is viable for me personally, I'm seriously thinking about getting one. As G11 hasn't been the commercial success Zoom had hoped for, there is a question mark over firmware updates, but I'd be surprised if there weren't at least some. And frankly, I think there's enough in it to more than meet my gigging needs anyway.
I fully accept that there are a ton of units out there each with their own USPs, that all have their followings/supporters and each with advantages, disadvantages and compromises. for example the Mooer GE300 has 4 mode tone capture but no rhythms, no dual amp or cab capability, Helix gives parallel routing & multi amp/cab set ups and is very powerful - but it's also big, heavy and expensive and for many users its overkill. The Boss GT1000 sound good but not everyone gets on with its user-interface. Ampero is well thought of, compact, competitively priced, but you really need a midi pedal for gigging (at least, I would). The Boss ME series are essentially a collection of stomp boxes that are easy to use with great effects, but for me these units miss the mark because of no patch-naming and I'm not a fan of the ME70/80 amp modelling.
Each of us has to make decisions on what's right for our needs & budget, and what compromises we are prepared to make - and so, despite its critics, this Zoom G11 might be the smaller, lighter-weight more modern MFX for my gigging needs.
1. I don't yet own one nor have I tried one
2. I'm not remotely thinking of this as a true Helix competitor. I don't need parallel paths or multiple amps etc
3. The presets are dreadful - Zoom should have got a pro in to put these together, not a monkey.
4. It's looks are shall we say somewhat 'idiosyncratic', old school, multicoloured, not clean lines etc etc
5. The price is way OTT - currently at £699 although oddly I saw deals at £599 even a couple of days ago that no longer seem to be there. IMO top price new should be £499-549 tops, and I'm willing to bet that in the next 12 months prices will drop & used prices will be around £300-350. Why? Well, not the biggest success story Zoom has ever had, and whilst there are a lot of dedicated Zoom fans, resales simply won't compete with Helix and there is a 'street cred' theme here too. The new G6 type unit is where Zoom is now targeting its market (which I'm not interested in).
I have a Pod Go that utilises Helix modelling, that I bought to 'entertain' me over lock-down and whilst far from perfect, has been a lot of fun, sounds really good, and I had half an eye that this might be able to replace my trusty Vox Tonelab SE for gigging duties. We're not back into band practice/gigging quite yet so the jury is out here, but I had my second Phizer jab yesterday and after 21/6 fingers crossed we'll begin to see things cautiously getting back to some kind of 'normality'.
So, why am I even thinking about the Zoom G11 as a gigging unit?
Well, the more I read and the more videos I watch, the more I'm convinced that this puppy has the easiest and best live use functionality of any MFX currently out there and is where I think Zoom has got it right. And its this that appeals to me.
1. It has a separate set of amp controls and amp LCD window, with led position markers that can be seen on dimply lit stages. It's wholly independent of all the FX sections and means regardless of patch, signal chain etc, you can instantly tweak eg gain, volume, treble etc in an instance by the turn of a dial without having to press a single button or enter a single menu. This instant tweakability is what I loved about gigging my Valvetronix AD120VTX rig - DSP modelling sophistication but that worked simply like a traditional amp.
2. The FX blocks are just like a series of stomp pedals with real knobs to tweak parameters - this simple stomp box approach is one of the things that folk like @ICBM love about the Boss ME50, 70, 80 units etc and I fully agree with that sentiment. Although you can only see 5 at a time, you can have up to (DSP permitting) 9 effects plus an amp. In a covers band, for gigging, you need patch-naming - a big omission in the Boss units IMO, but covered in the G11. You can only see 5 at a time but there is a foot operated scroll for easily moving these along and switching on/off or tweaking any FX. Plus you have an expression pedal too.
3. The touch screen may not be the most modern graphics around, but its fast, functional, and eminently practical that makes setting up the G11 and choosing display preferences really fast and easy.
4. It's so simple & intuitive to use that you can start using it for basic set ups even without having to refer to the manual.
5. The floor control re switching fx on/off, and moving around, is very well thought through, it's well 'lit' & makes G11 very quick & easy to use live.
6. Modelling quality is actually pretty much up there (just disregard the awful factory presets!) and it has multiple IR capability. Regardless of personal preferences/opinions for Line 6, Mooer, Boss, Vox Zoom amp models, there really isn't a massive difference nowadays, certainly not live in a band mix, and it's all down to tweaking, cab/IR models etc.
7. DSP cost is displayed and G11 is a good 25% more powerful than the new Zoom G6.
8. 5 minute stereo looper and some really quite good sounding rhythms mean this could be a fun unit to play at home.
Interesting comments from one G11 user:
"There are a lot of intangibles that are super cool about the G11 that you won't realize until you've used it. For instance, when auditioning IRs, you still have access to all the encoders while you are scrolling through the list of IRs. So you just touch the IR you want to hear, and can simulataneously tweak the amp controls, the boost pedal, the EQ blocks, etc, etc. Its like having a real effect board without any menu diving. Makes it very easy to audition different IRs and effects. On every other FX processor, once you select a new IR or effect, you have to navigate to whatever amp/effect it is you want to change (the IR menu goes away), and then if you don't like it, you have to navigate back to the IR block. etc etc. Stuff gets done on the G11 50x faster."
So, if the price comes down sufficiently to a level that is viable for me personally, I'm seriously thinking about getting one. As G11 hasn't been the commercial success Zoom had hoped for, there is a question mark over firmware updates, but I'd be surprised if there weren't at least some. And frankly, I think there's enough in it to more than meet my gigging needs anyway.
I fully accept that there are a ton of units out there each with their own USPs, that all have their followings/supporters and each with advantages, disadvantages and compromises. for example the Mooer GE300 has 4 mode tone capture but no rhythms, no dual amp or cab capability, Helix gives parallel routing & multi amp/cab set ups and is very powerful - but it's also big, heavy and expensive and for many users its overkill. The Boss GT1000 sound good but not everyone gets on with its user-interface. Ampero is well thought of, compact, competitively priced, but you really need a midi pedal for gigging (at least, I would). The Boss ME series are essentially a collection of stomp boxes that are easy to use with great effects, but for me these units miss the mark because of no patch-naming and I'm not a fan of the ME70/80 amp modelling.
Each of us has to make decisions on what's right for our needs & budget, and what compromises we are prepared to make - and so, despite its critics, this Zoom G11 might be the smaller, lighter-weight more modern MFX for my gigging needs.
I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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Comments
Amp modelling quality is a big thing for me, so unless Zoom upgrade these, that could be a deciding factor. I dont see the point of having a great UI and putting out a unit at this price point without upgraded amp modelling quality across the board.
UPDATE
It's been suggested to me that it's not so much the amp modelling in the G5n but that the convertors and cab models were not bringing out the best from the amp models. As we all know a good cab/IR can transform an amp model, and if the G11 does have better cabs and convertors, it could make a big difference. So I'll remain open minded and will be interested to try a G11 if I can find one after lockdown.