Fender "QC" - Is this acceptable these days?

Tannin

I never sold musical instruments, but I was a computer and IT retailer for 25 or 30 years. The brand new to shop soiled transition happens when there is a discernable difference between the item and a similar one still in the box. A scratch, soiling, non-original packaging, older model - anything that marks it off as different. With care, it is generally possible to rotate display and working stock such that you seldom have to discount a shop-soiled item. Keep them clean, keep the packaging, and keep turning them over. Or else dedicate a given part to display duty and use it forever. Anything else costs you too much money.

(But sometimes I used to sell perfectly good pretty-much pristine items as "shop soiled" simply because I wanted to offer a discount without selling below our normal price. Calling something "shop soiled" means you can knock 10% off without actually "discounting".)

Disclaimer: no-one taught me that policy. I have no idea how other retailers work. I just made our rules up because they seemed to make sense and, as we got bigger, trained new staff along the same lines. Maybe other retailers do the same, maybe they don't. 

guitars4you

SPECTRUM001 said:

Slightly off piste, but a question for someone currently or previously running retail (apologies, but the only person I know for sure is @guitars4you).

When does a display model move from being brand spanking new to shop soiled ?

Presumably, smaller shops do not have ten boxed up versions of the same guitar, so it would be normal for much of the stock to be on the shop floor and played/tested by potential buyers.

And ironically, I would imagine even in the bigger retailers, Custom Shop examples will definitely be on the shop floor gathering dust - but that doesn't make them b-stock ?

I think someone recently mentioned Boomerangs - certainly there is no way of really knowing whether a new CS has actually been sent out and rejected numerous times...

Maybe not a pure answer that all will buy into - IMO it is more to do with how the guitar is treated/respected whilst on display - And maybe somewhat easier for a small store to administer than a larger dealer with a far busier foot flow of customers/browsers


If I put a guitar on display today and you are the first to try it, with a view to a purchase, then after trying 2/3/4 other guitars, are those guitars now ex-display or still new  ? - If handled correctly and cared for I don't see an issue - But now a question to you, the potential buyer and assume you have now visited the shop ? - Do you want to buy the clean display model that you've just tried, or a new 'boxed' example from the back store room - If you say the latter, then can I assume you don't need/want to try it before you buy it, because if you do and then prefer to buy the new/display example because you prefer the feel/set-up/look, then the new/boxed example has now just become a display example hasn't it ? - Potential for us all to be going crazy 

We all know a guitar has to be placed on display and it is fair to say most of us will try 2/3/4 guitars on display with a viewing to buying the one that suits them the best - But IMO a guitar on display has to be clean, set-up with clean strings - No grubby old stained finger marks left on the finish, ditto clean strings, not manky and dirty and not piles of dust on it - Should not be an issue for any retailer to maintain clean guitars on display

I think there is a difference between say a new USA Strat that has been on display 6 months, picked up a few grazes and tried by many - Legally it is still new and maybe should now be on offer with an 'new but ex-display' price tag that has been adjusted accordingly

Based on my store/examples of guitars stocked/sold, then it is more a case of how they are cared for whilst I stock/display them, awaiting for  a potential buyer - But today most of my stock is used, so not an issue when you are talking about 'box shifting' retailers with 1000's of guitars in stock and 10 of the same in the store room - In many ways, the latter is a new aspect of guitar retail that has only become more of an 'Amazon' form of retail in the last 5/10 years ago - And most stores, certainly in the UK, are handling front of house/shop floor retail + a 'box shifting' operation as well so in some ways sch topics can become distorted 

ICBM

joetele said:

True, but I haven't seen anything like this on the Bullet Mustang or the Affinity guitars (JM and Starcaster) that I've bought in the past year. They were all perfectly well made straight from the factory. 

I don't disagree at all - the fact that it's Fender/Squier makes it even more disgraceful.

I meant the absolute lowest entry level, like some off-brand Argos special where the lowest possible price is the selling point, as long as it's functional. Above that, where you're paying a bit more for a proper brand precisely for the purpose of buying something slightly better, it's not.

guitars4you

Surely even if you have 10 in the store room, in the case of a figured maple top, then each customer will need to see such details - So the seal needs to be broken so the dealer can photo each guitar - Ditto weight - Ditto dark/colour of a rosewood board

andysc

It is interesting to hear people's QC concerns regarding Fender at the moment. I took delivery of my Performer Tele last week. It's a maple neck butterscotch LE. The tag on it said it had been checked by the retailer before being sent. I found a few issues.

On the 18th and 19th frets there is some hard shiny substance. It is on the edge facing the guitar body, and doesn't effect playability, but it is a bit unsatisfactory. I think it may be the coating they put on the maple neck.

There was also some uneven-ness and gritty feeling on one or two of the frets. This is only apparent when bending a note, so it isn't on a section of fret directly under a string. I can see how a brief play and set up in the shop would have missed it.

These problems are all fixable and now shops are opening up I'll take it to a local, but it did feel a little disappointing on my first big guitar purchase. Not worth sending back but disappointing.

mark123

I know you say its new but to me it looks like the nut has been replaced and the laquer at  the side of the nut has been damaged whilst removing the old one ,then the new nut has been fitted too high and someone has used a rough file to get it down to the right level , but then never polished the nut off with different grades of very fine wet & dry .

p90fool

mark123 said:

I know you say its new but to me it looks like the nut has been replaced and the laquer at  the side of the nut has been damaged whilst removing the old one ,then the new nut has been fitted too high and someone has used a rough file to get it down to the right level , but then never polished the nut off with different grades of very fine wet & dry .

That was my first thought too, and an incorrect expanding glue used, like that awful Gorilla stuff which foams out everywhere.

I don't know how you'd do such an untidy job if you were using the correct materials, it really does look more like an amateur repair than a clumsy factory job. 

ThePrettyDamned

Funny thing is, my Gibson lp arrived in great shape! Frets benefit from a bit of a polish and there was something on the edge of the fretboard that was a bit gunky (I'm assuming it was polish) but played fine, sounds great, no choking, all clean and beautiful - and it was a lower end model.

And I have always sagged Gibson off in the past! Maybe tables are turning?! 

Greatape

Inexcusable given the frankly ridiculous price rises of late. 

Maybe the box shifters need to start opening said boxes every time. 

Stevepage

PhilM said:

The shop hasn't opened it before sending it to me. Not many seem to these days - not the first time I've received something in a state inside a factory-sealed box. Retailer have offered to swap it out with another one that will be checked over. That throws up a few issues though - I'm not around for the rest of the week! 

GuitarGuitar did that with the Prs acoustic I bought. Turned up and was unplayable beyond the 9th fret as it needed a full fret dress straight of out the box. 

Returned it so they could sort it out, then messed me around for 2 weeks while I chased them to eventually be told it’s had to go back to the supplier. Either wait for a new one to come in or have a refund. Took a refund and spent my money elsewhere.

they’re great in store, great service. But online is bloody appalling 

SPECTRUM001

guitars4you said:

SPECTRUM001 said:

Slightly off piste, but a question for someone currently or previously running retail (apologies, but the only person I know for sure is @guitars4you).

When does a display model move from being brand spanking new to shop soiled ?

Presumably, smaller shops do not have ten boxed up versions of the same guitar, so it would be normal for much of the stock to be on the shop floor and played/tested by potential buyers.

And ironically, I would imagine even in the bigger retailers, Custom Shop examples will definitely be on the shop floor gathering dust - but that doesn't make them b-stock ?

I think someone recently mentioned Boomerangs - certainly there is no way of really knowing whether a new CS has actually been sent out and rejected numerous times...

Maybe not a pure answer that all will buy into - IMO it is more to do with how the guitar is treated/respected whilst on display - And maybe somewhat easier for a small store to administer than a larger dealer with a far busier foot flow of customers/browsers


If I put a guitar on display today and you are the first to try it, with a view to a purchase, then after trying 2/3/4 other guitars, are those guitars now ex-display or still new  ? - If handled correctly and cared for I don't see an issue - But now a question to you, the potential buyer and assume you have now visited the shop ? - Do you want to buy the clean display model that you've just tried, or a new 'boxed' example from the back store room - If you say the latter, then can I assume you don't need/want to try it before you buy it, because if you do and then prefer to buy the new/display example because you prefer the feel/set-up/look, then the new/boxed example has now just become a display example hasn't it ? - Potential for us all to be going crazy 

We all know a guitar has to be placed on display and it is fair to say most of us will try 2/3/4 guitars on display with a viewing to buying the one that suits them the best - But IMO a guitar on display has to be clean, set-up with clean strings - No grubby old stained finger marks left on the finish, ditto clean strings, not manky and dirty and not piles of dust on it - Should not be an issue for any retailer to maintain clean guitars on display

I think there is a difference between say a new USA Strat that has been on display 6 months, picked up a few grazes and tried by many - Legally it is still new and maybe should now be on offer with an 'new but ex-display' price tag that has been adjusted accordingly

Based on my store/examples of guitars stocked/sold, then it is more a case of how they are cared for whilst I stock/display them, awaiting for  a potential buyer - But today most of my stock is used, so not an issue when you are talking about 'box shifting' retailers with 1000's of guitars in stock and 10 of the same in the store room - In many ways, the latter is a new aspect of guitar retail that has only become more of an 'Amazon' form of retail in the last 5/10 years ago - And most stores, certainly in the UK, are handling front of house/shop floor retail + a 'box shifting' operation as well so in some ways sch topics can become distorted 

Thank you - your approach sounds really sensible and consumer driven. However there are probably many others that are far more lessay fair.

I don't think the larger retailers move an item to b-stock until it actually has a lacquer chip (or something else as significant). Certainly the Denmark St stores that view their stock as there to be played - which means they can pick up minor marks and swirls. But this is all cosmetic and not the issue the OP has flagged, which is about poor QC.

Personally, I am in two camps - that brand new guitar feeling/smell/touch is a wonderful thing, as is the comfort of knowing it has been tried and tested to be a good 'un.

PhilM

Not much to update as yet. The swap is happening tomorrow, but I won't be able to collect it until the evening (110 mile trip out of my way). The "customer service" rep I've been dealing with promised me that "a luthier would look over the replacement", and then said that when "someone in the warehouse looks at it, I'll get them to take photos and will send them to you before dispatch". I have received no photos, and have no idea if a luthier has indeed looked at it, or if it has just been checked over by a warehouse operative. The delivery notification from DPD is the only communication I've had today.

Will see what tomorrow brings, but these guys really are a shower of brown smelly stuff.

Musicman20

PhilM said:

Not much to update as yet. The swap is happening tomorrow, but I won't be able to collect it until the evening (110 mile trip out of my way). The "customer service" rep I've been dealing with promised me that "a luthier would look over the replacement", and then said that when "someone in the warehouse looks at it, I'll get them to take photos and will send them to you before dispatch". I have received no photos, and have no idea if a luthier has indeed looked at it, or if it has just been checked over by a warehouse operative. The delivery notification from DPD is the only communication I've had today.

Will see what tomorrow brings, but these guys really are a shower of brown smelly stuff.

Heck.... I hope its OK. 

Nerine

Would be interesting to know how many guitars they have sent out this week. 

TheBigDipper

PhilM said:

<snip>

The delivery notification from DPD is the only communication I've had today.

Will see what tomorrow brings, but these guys really are a shower of brown smelly stuff.

In my recent experiences, I've found out that some courier companies will email or text you with a delivery date/time once the order has been placed by their customer. So, if, on a Monday, the retailer books an overnight delivery to you, the courier will tell you it's arriving on Tuesday before 10:30am. If the retailer fails to pack it and get it collected on time, you'll not get told anything. It just doesn't appear. 

PhilM

Well... It arrived. Still no comms from GG, no pictures, no reply to my email from last night asking what happened to the pics etc. It's actually playable and the nut isn't falling apart. A "checked by Alan" sticker, the lack of factory sealing, and a playable setup indicates that someone has looked over it and adjusted it. There are still scratches all up the fretboard board, however. Not sure how I feel about them. Not sure it's my job to put them right, but suspect they'll be an excuse involving the phrases "that's hows they all are", "COVID ennit", "Brexit yeah?" - or more likely GG will just continue to ignore my emails.



I'm going to update my case with Fender (who haven't responded since I logged the case on Monday) and see if they feel this is acceptable. 

PhilM

Almost forgot...

PhilM

Here's a thought - there has to be a reason for these scratches to be there. Unlikely to be fret-polishing related (unless they are finishing frets without protecting the fingerboard but that seems unlikely), but what if these necks were gloss to begin with?

I have the aftermarket roasted maple Strat neck on a Squier Tele FSR Deluxe. This is satin on the back, and high gloss on the fretboard and headstock. Maybe the neck on the Strat started off just like this, but has been knocked back to satin, which has left the marks. GG advertise this as having a satin fretboard.

Fifty9

Whatever the reason, that’s awful. Has to go back surely? Sad to be disappointed in a purchase but whilst you may convince yourself you’re ok with it now, there’s a high chance that down the line you’ll be put off with it and kick yourself for not sending it back for a refund. See what fender says for sure but have to let gg know that they’re sending out shoddy goods and their comms leave a lot to be desired.

TINMAN82

PhilM said:

Here's a thought - there has to be a reason for these scratches to be there. Unlikely to be fret-polishing related (unless they are finishing frets without protecting the fingerboard but that seems unlikely), but what if these necks were gloss to begin with?

I have the aftermarket roasted maple Strat neck on a Squier Tele FSR Deluxe. This is satin on the back, and high gloss on the fretboard and headstock. Maybe the neck on the Strat started off just like this, but has been knocked back to satin, which has left the marks. GG advertise this as having a satin fretboard.

Suspect you’re right here and they will all have the lines to some degree. You could try buffing the board up a bit with something like Big Bends encore scratch remover but you’d gloss it up a bit in the process.