Which Tweed Circuit?

dazzajl

Well @Lebarque, these are just my thoughts and obviously worth exactly what you're paying for them. the headlines go like this.

The Vyse - Ferocious in every way! It's loud, it's angry, it's bursting with energy and makes every guitar played though it sound absolutely epic. It's also the most unmanageable if you want to play with a loud band and not have LOTS of drive. A Stephen Stern Master built Gretsch Annie, which is also a total screaming rock machine, through this amp was simply the best guitar noise I've ever heard. 

The HW Fender - A tweed box full of mostly MEH. A soft and mild mannered amp that didn't want to break up at all. Quite possibly just what some people really want but not at all my idea of a Tweed Deluxe.

The Abbot - Was owned by our Mr Marlin and apparently was quite a mess inside. After that was fixed (by Mr Vyse) it was a nice amp but a little too well mannered for my personal taste. There was breakup but it didn't have that real rock n roll snarl that I really like.

The Gartone - Rich, warm, a really lovely overall tone. Probably more balanced than the Vyse but didn't have the "being shouted at by a Sergeant Major at point blank range" force to it. 

The Americana - From my conversations with Chris at Rift, the Americana is supposed to be a slightly mellowed take on the 5e3. A little more power to open up the headroom, a gorgeous reverb to soften the edges and a speaker chosen to accentuate the amps really rich softer side, while not being too efficient, so you can push it playing with a band. I asked for mine to go back to a much more raw and gnarly side of the 5e3 and Chris has managed to get inside my head and capture just what I loved about my Vyse, before I sold it to Marlin. It's not quite as compressed and saggy as the Vyse but it has an immediacy to the sound that I've never heard in an amp before. It's like the guitar is connected directly to boxing glove. When you dig in on the guitar you are immediately hit with an enormous wall of sound. So much so that it's almost like the noise hits you before you've registered striking the notes. 
 

AndyJP

@Gassage ok will take a listen. are you on commission on this one?

DartmoorHedgehog

dazzajl said:

It's like the guitar is connected directly to boxing glove. 
 

Sorry OP, I have nothing to add about tweed amps, but had to post just to say that's probably the best sentence I've read on here (or anywhere) for a long time

AndyJP

Cracking line 

I should add tho. I'm not looking for a snarling rock beast. I'm looking for subtle. Maybe not the typical use case. I like the mid range and compression you get from the tweeds.

dazzajl

Then maybe that Blues Cube really is the perfect solution? And there’s the benefit that if you buy the one here, it won’t be tempting me

ICBM

I think most of the above is a perfect description of why - despite being a big Neil Young fan - I don't get on with 5E3s at all, other than clean at lower volume. I really don't like that 'shouty' type of sound, or the over-responsiveness to the guitar - I can never set the amp so it sounds good through the full range of sounds I use with the pickups and how I play, if it's clean and full enough at one end it's too muddy at the other, and if it's bright and chimey at one end then it's shrill and clangy at the other. I don't find the interactive volume controls very useful, it's a real pain to get them just right and the best position of the second one is both dependent on the first and microscopically sensitive... and the tone control seems to go from one side of the sound I want to the other without passing through it, if that makes sense! I think the lack of negative feedback might be the issue.

I've actually got an original '61 5E3 here just now for some work, and it's OK, but... I wouldn't want to own it.

Gassage

AndyJP said:

@Gassage ok will take a listen. are you on commission on this one?

Not guilty!

My mate Gaz Morris (a legend in Brum) played a whole blues gig just before lock down that I joined him for a number - he had better tone than my J40- I was stunned. If you don't snare it, I may very well!!

bbill335

i might have to see if i can demo a blues cube again, one of the pushy knowitalls in pmt once twisted my arm into trying one and it sounded absolutely terrible

Lebarque

dazzajl said:

Well @Lebarque, these are just my thoughts and obviously worth exactly what you're paying for them. the headlines go like this.

The Vyse - Ferocious in every way! It's loud, it's angry, it's bursting with energy and makes every guitar played though it sound absolutely epic. It's also the most unmanageable if you want to play with a loud band and not have LOTS of drive. A Stephen Stern Master built Gretsch Annie, which is also a total screaming rock machine, through this amp was simply the best guitar noise I've ever heard. 

The HW Fender - A tweed box full of mostly MEH. A soft and mild mannered amp that didn't want to break up at all. Quite possibly just what some people really want but not at all my idea of a Tweed Deluxe.

The Abbot - Was owned by our Mr Marlin and apparently was quite a mess inside. After that was fixed (by Mr Vyse) it was a nice amp but a little too well mannered for my personal taste. There was breakup but it didn't have that real rock n roll snarl that I really like.

The Gartone - Rich, warm, a really lovely overall tone. Probably more balanced than the Vyse but didn't have the "being shouted at by a Sergeant Major at point blank range" force to it. 

The Americana - From my conversations with Chris at Rift, the Americana is supposed to be a slightly mellowed take on the 5e3. A little more power to open up the headroom, a gorgeous reverb to soften the edges and a speaker chosen to accentuate the amps really rich softer side, while not being too efficient, so you can push it playing with a band. I asked for mine to go back to a much more raw and gnarly side of the 5e3 and Chris has managed to get inside my head and capture just what I loved about my Vyse, before I sold it to Marlin. It's not quite as compressed and saggy as the Vyse but it has an immediacy to the sound that I've never heard in an amp before. It's like the guitar is connected directly to boxing glove. When you dig in on the guitar you are immediately hit with an enormous wall of sound. So much so that it's almost like the noise hits you before you've registered striking the notes. 
 

An amusing and informative write-up! Cheers. Would love to try a Gartone and an Americana. Shame you didn't have a J20 to compare as well.

TheMarlin

dazzajl said:

Well @Lebarque, these are just my thoughts and obviously worth exactly what you're paying for them. the headlines go like this.

The Vyse - Ferocious in every way! It's loud, it's angry, it's bursting with energy and makes every guitar played though it sound absolutely epic. It's also the most unmanageable if you want to play with a loud band and not have LOTS of drive. A Stephen Stern Master built Gretsch Annie, which is also a total screaming rock machine, through this amp was simply the best guitar noise I've ever heard. 

The HW Fender - A tweed box full of mostly MEH. A soft and mild mannered amp that didn't want to break up at all. Quite possibly just what some people really want but not at all my idea of a Tweed Deluxe.

The Abbot - Was owned by our Mr Marlin and apparently was quite a mess inside. After that was fixed (by Mr Vyse) it was a nice amp but a little too well mannered for my personal taste. There was breakup but it didn't have that real rock n roll snarl that I really like.

The Gartone - Rich, warm, a really lovely overall tone. Probably more balanced than the Vyse but didn't have the "being shouted at by a Sergeant Major at point blank range" force to it. 

The Americana - From my conversations with Chris at Rift, the Americana is supposed to be a slightly mellowed take on the 5e3. A little more power to open up the headroom, a gorgeous reverb to soften the edges and a speaker chosen to accentuate the amps really rich softer side, while not being too efficient, so you can push it playing with a band. I asked for mine to go back to a much more raw and gnarly side of the 5e3 and Chris has managed to get inside my head and capture just what I loved about my Vyse, before I sold it to Marlin. It's not quite as compressed and saggy as the Vyse but it has an immediacy to the sound that I've never heard in an amp before. It's like the guitar is connected directly to boxing glove. When you dig in on the guitar you are immediately hit with an enormous wall of sound. So much so that it's almost like the noise hits you before you've registered striking the notes. 
 

Yup, what he said!

We even had the Vyse up against a Plexi 36w into a 4x12 cab, and it out-Marshalled the Marshall.   It’s a mental little amp, best amp I’ve ever played.  

The worst sounding 5E3 I ever heard was a Fender Custom Shop model.  Dull, flat, lifeless, downright boring and uninspiring. 

AndyJP

The fender 5e3 is getting a right slagging!

Listening to some clips the bassman clean tone is what I think I want. But I can't be arsed lugging one of those about. I can see the bandmaster and tweed super seem to be smaller versions of them.

Gassage

AndyJP said:

The fender 5e3 is getting a right slagging!

Listening to some clips the bassman clean tone is what I think I want. But I can't be arsed lugging one of those about. I can see the bandmaster and tweed super seem to be smaller versions of them.

It might be slightly too much, but Mike at MotoMusic in Cardiff has a Cornell 2 x 10 20w Pro for sale at 1299.....

AndyJP

Thx for the heads up! Yeah that's out of budget. But love the Romany!  A pal has the 12 plus model.

Emiel

AndyJP said:

The fender 5e3 is getting a right slagging!

Listening to some clips the bassman clean tone is what I think I want. But I can't be arsed lugging one of those about. I can see the bandmaster and tweed super seem to be smaller versions of them.

Or if you want smaller, a Harvard/Vibrolux clone. They have more headroom than a Deluxe and a tighter low end too.

p90fool

Just to throw a spanner in the works when it comes to searching for the perfect amplifier output for a given drummer, I gave up years ago and just choose an amp I like and mic it up.

I make it work for me by bringing my own powered wedge and a Superlux cab mic, which means I can play a Princeton or whatever at the exact sweet spot I want and then adjust my onstage master volume by turning the wedge up or down. I can also have it facing me, which makes the sound guy's job a lot easier as he can barely hear me.

Trying to match amp output to drummers is a mug's game. In one soul band I played in they replaced the drummer, and I had to change from an attenuated 15w Pro Jr to a flat-out JTM45 in the same band. 

AndyJP

@p90fool that is brilliant advice! What are you using for a wedge?

I've got one of the small alto 8 inch wedges that hasn't had any use.

Jota

p90fool said:

Just to throw a spanner in the works when it comes to searching for the perfect amplifier output for a given drummer, I gave up years ago and just choose an amp I like and mic it up.

I make it work for me by bringing my own powered wedge and a Superlux cab mic, which means I can play a Princeton or whatever at the exact sweet spot I want and then adjust my onstage master volume by turning the wedge up or down. I can also have it facing me, which makes the sound guy's job a lot easier as he can barely hear me.

Trying to match amp output to drummers is a mug's game. In one soul band I played in they replaced the drummer, and I had to change from an attenuated 15w Pro Jr to a flat-out JTM45 in the same band. 

Wow!

Same room?

p90fool

@AndyJP just a cheap Studiomaster 10" wedge with a Superlux PRA-628, which is about 35 quid. 

@Jota I did around 40 gigs with each drummer. They were both excellent, but the first guy was a real funk guy and the second way more rock, in fact he got down to the final handful of auditions to join AC/DC when Phil Rudd left, so the common question about whether an amp can keep up with a drummer is a bit vague!

Jota

p90fool said:

@AndyJP just a cheap Studiomaster 10" wedge with a Superlux PRA-628, which is about 35 quid. 

@Jota I did around 40 gigs with each drummer. They were both excellent, but the first guy was a real funk guy and the second way more rock, in fact he got down to the final handful of auditions to join AC/DC when Phil Rudd left, so the common question about whether an amp can keep up with a drummer is a bit vague!

Yeah, it is but, the only time I had a problem with an amp not cutting was more because of the room than the drummer.

ICBM

This is exactly why I like powerful amps, with master volumes if I want overdrive from the amp. No messing about trying to guess how much power you need - just turn a knob and you're at the right volume.