Combi boiler advice please

rlw

We have a combi in a four storey house, boiler in the basement next to the kitchen, with shower room on the first and second floors.   There is only two of us.

Hot water takes a few seconds to get to the first floor bathroom and a couple of seconds longer to get to the second floor bathroom, which is a rise of around 50 feet.  The first floor bathroom has very good pressure for the shower, the second floor less so because the pipework is too small a bore, but still good pressure.  If the pipework was better, there would be no difference.

The only things which affects the showers are using the hose, as the take off for this precedes the boiler, and flushing the second floor toilet, which is probably due to it being a long way up.

We are both happy to have hot water, but only the amount we need, when we need it, at anytime, and not to have a sodding great tank full of hot water sitting in the loft slowly getting colder and never being full when you, spontaneously, feel the need for a shower.

Iamnobody

Wazmeister said:

exocet said:

Wazmeister said:

Buy a combi.

Dont buy British boiler.

To muddy the waters a little, both Vaillant and Worcester Bosch manufacture in UK, they would be my go to brands for Combi or conventional.

That's what I meant really - get a Vaillant or Worcester.

To muddy the waters even further a couple of plumbers I know have starting recommending  Ideal - apparently they’ve upped their game over recent years, their top models if fitted by an approved installer have a 12 year warranty, use brass where other’s use plastic, are easier to work on and use stainless steel instead of aluminium heat exchangers. 

chillidoggy

My boiler is an Ideal, 1988 vintage. It’s like Trigger’s Broom, but *just keeps on going.




*Kiss of death.

ronnyb

Ideal went through a bad patch with the Isar range. The Logic now is supposed to be very good.

richman6100

I had a new combi installed a few months ago. Went for a Vaillant this time as the previous one, a Worcester Bosch, was a bit of a nightmare. I suspect that I got a Friday afternoon model as its unreliability is apparently not typical of the brand. I know a few plumbers and they all recommend either WB or Vaillant. Vaillant have a reputation for being easier to work on / service, which should lower costs in the long run. Mine came with a 10 year warranty. The overall cost to supply and fit the Vaillant came to £1850.

russpm

exocet said:

Wazmeister said:

Buy a combi.

Dont buy British boiler.

To muddy the waters a little, both Vaillant and Worcester Bosch manufacture in UK, they would be my go to brands for Combi or conventional.

I would definitely swerve a Worcester Bosh, Ive had two and they were absolutely shite. Broke regularly from 12 months old onwards.

Wazmeister

Ideal are propa shit... buy two spare PCBs and you might be OK

chillidoggy

Wazmeister said:

Ideal are propa shit... buy two spare PCBs and you might be OK

I've repaired my Ideal PCB about four times now. Last time it was a burnt resistor, nice easy solder job. 

gusman2x

Thanks all for such detailed responses, I really appreciate it. 

It’s firmed up what I thought: a) the price for the cylinder was too high and b) why replace the complete system because of one failing component than can be changed out. 

Much appreciated. 

ToneControl

rlw said:

We have a combi in a four storey house, boiler in the basement next to the kitchen, with shower room on the first and second floors.   There is only two of us.

Hot water takes a few seconds to get to the first floor bathroom and a couple of seconds longer to get to the second floor bathroom, which is a rise of around 50 feet.  The first floor bathroom has very good pressure for the shower, the second floor less so because the pipework is too small a bore, but still good pressure.  If the pipework was better, there would be no difference.

The only things which affects the showers are using the hose, as the take off for this precedes the boiler, and flushing the second floor toilet, which is probably due to it being a long way up.

We are both happy to have hot water, but only the amount we need, when we need it, at anytime, and not to have a sodding great tank full of hot water sitting in the loft slowly getting colder and never being full when you, spontaneously, feel the need for a shower.

btw some boilers have an integral heat reservoir to effectively add capacity for 12 mins, so as to enhance showers

ToneControl

Wazmeister said:

Ideal are propa shit... buy two spare PCBs and you might be OK

that's what wrong with my first WB,so the repairers thought
and first repairers could not get the PCB for ages, in the end was the solenoid on the gas supply

ToneControl

I'm skeptical about these long guarantees btw
Plumbers say the manufacturers can be awkward when it comes to it

For my own WB, I just use their service/breakdown yearly plan

ToneControl

Before I forget
our plumber who fitted current King-size WB quoted somewhere between  50% and 100% more than I could find it online

Turns out he just buys at the local supplier without querying the price, and they gave/give him vouchers that he collects over the year to pay for a family holiday

Do your own shopping around

ToneControl

IMHO
I don't see any evidence to indicate that WB or Ideal are much different to Vokera etc

ToneControl

@gusman2x ;
where are you in Manchester?

Dominic

ToneControl said:

IMHO
I don't see any evidence to indicate that WB or Ideal are much different to Vokera etc

Agreed it was 25 years ago but we did a whole development of 32 flats using them ; Nightmare .....every single one failed within a year.....every Heating Contractor we called in and both of our M and E engineers said they were complete rubbish .
I think they may be French which is another 'avoid' .....Chauffage in France is notoriously the worst in Europe.
But things do change and designs change ......Vaillant were the No 1 for a long time but had some serious problems and poor design issues in the last 7 years (which are largely resolved now ) but it seems most reliable is currently the Worcester Bosch range .
I am intrigued by the water pressure issue .......How did you ever find out a Factory down the road was responsible for the deficit in pressure and when they were drawing water .......that seems an insurmountable investigation ?

boogieman

ToneControl said:

I'm skeptical about these long guarantees btw
Plumbers say the manufacturers can be awkward when it comes to it

For my own WB, I just use their service/breakdown yearly plan

One thing you have to do to keep the warranty valid is have the boiler serviced by a manufacturer-approved  engineer. Of course they often charge a lot more than an independent. We had ours serviced recently by a guy I trust, a mate of a mate...it cost £70. He said there’s actually not much to do on a service... it either works or it doesn’t. All he can do is hoover out any debris from the burner, visually check for obvious defects and test to make sure it’s burning efficiently. 

ToneControl

Dominic said:

ToneControl said:

IMHO
I don't see any evidence to indicate that WB or Ideal are much different to Vokera etc

Agreed it was 25 years ago but we did a whole development of 32 flats using them ; Nightmare .....every single one failed within a year.....every Heating Contractor we called in and both of our M and E engineers said they were complete rubbish .
I think they may be French which is another 'avoid' .....Chauffage in France is notoriously the worst in Europe.
But things do change and designs change ......Vaillant were the No 1 for a long time but had some serious problems and poor design issues in the last 7 years (which are largely resolved now ) but it seems most reliable is currently the Worcester Bosch range .
I am intrigued by the water pressure issue .......How did you ever find out a Factory down the road was responsible for the deficit in pressure and when they were drawing water .......that seems an insurmountable investigation ?

I think I called the waterboard and they told us that the chemical works takes lots of water up until 6am or 7am, and it shared  our dead-end water mains. So I was finding it hard to get a shower before work, some days much later than the agreed cut off time. I vaguely recall asking for pressure charts for specific days, which showed low pressure outside the authorised usage window for the chemical plant

On the boilers:
I can't see why I'd recommend anyone paying double for a WB over a Vokera for a standard combi

I wish we'd had 2 Vokeras in different parts of the house, rather than one big WB

strtdv

Do you have a conventional hot water tank or are you using a system boiler with a pressurised tank?

If you're using a system boiler then £1000 for the hot water tank is a fairly reasonable price