Anyone own a fully electric car?

wibble

relic245 said:

So far, the ionoq is a bit Small for what we need.

The ID4 is lovely and a very competent car. The Audi blew it out of the water though in terms of feeling like a luxury car. It is a serious step up in cash though.

Will be interesting when the new Skoda hits the streets in 6 weeks ish. If it's anything like other Skoda's then the top of the range is often better than a mid priced VW and much less money.

So Tesla test drive booked for early may. I think the jaguar will probably get a test too.

I think the SKODA Enyaq is better proposition than the ID. 4 on that platform, although the Audi Q4 e tron would probably be my choice. Shame the Seat version is a little way off so we can't see how that stacks up in price/equipment and design.

You considered a Polestar 2?

There's a test drive event next weekend in Nottingham...

https://www.polestar.com/uk/test-drive/booking/select-location/event?location-type&model=ps2

The recently announced single motor versions brings it back into consideration for me.

https://on.to/ might be worth a look at if you want to spend a month with an electric car?

Grumpyrocker

I'm not looking for a new car right now. My current ICE vehicle hasn't done 20,000 miles yet. But I I'll not likely buy another ICE powered car.

The market for EV is looking great now. So many interesting cars now and the range is getting better every year. To be honest a range of under 50 miles would likely cover 95% of my motoring. So the standard of 200+ these days is plenty.

One thing that does concern me is the move by many manufacturers to focus on SUV size cars. I understand why, especially when considering where to put the batteries. But not everyone needs or wants a car that big. 

An electric hot-hatch would suit me. 

LooseMoose

I think we are waaaaaay off them working for the likes of me (high mileage drivers) but I would SO have a Honda E!

Grumpyrocker

LooseMoose said:

I think we are waaaaaay off them working for the likes of me (high mileage drivers) but I would SO have a Honda E!

The Honda is a very cute car. But wow that range was a real surprise when the real car came along. Not good.

LooseMoose

Grumpyrocker said:

LooseMoose said:

I think we are waaaaaay off them working for the likes of me (high mileage drivers) but I would SO have a Honda E!

The Honda is a very cute car. But wow that range was a real surprise when the real car came along. Not good.

Yep, add to the fact it’s about £10k overpriced too! I’m out.

wibble

LooseMoose said:

I think we are waaaaaay off them working for the likes of me (high mileage drivers) but I would SO have a Honda E!

Just out of interest, how many miles do you do a year? And what's your daily commute?

LooseMoose

Daily commute? What’s that lol. I travel for work (own car) and regularly do around 200 miles a day.

Last (proper, non COVID) year was about 35k 

goldtop

Grumpyrocker said:

LooseMoose said:

I think we are waaaaaay off them working for the likes of me (high mileage drivers) but I would SO have a Honda E!

The Honda is a very cute car. But wow that range was a real surprise when the real car came along. Not good.

There will eventually be a paradigm shift on range. A lot of ICE-drivers just fill to brim all the time and barely plan for refuelling. Zero fuss, and IMHO near-zero thought given to fuel efficiency. EV driving brings fuel efficiency right to the top of the agenda (some people won't like that). The range, the gauges, the eco modes, the regen choices - all make you think about your driving style.

The weight of 50-60 litres of petrol is negligible, so it doesn't factor in our planning. But the weight of 400-miles-worth of batteries is not negligible. Lugging them around for so many trips where they are literally deadweight is daft. The Honda e is a deliberate attempt to address this (FWIW, I don't think Honda expects it to be a sales success.)

Carwow (and others) who have done the 'we drove it on the motorway until the car just stopped' videos, have the wrong end of the stick and their job is clickbaiting. For one reason: it would be a tougher job for them to make videos that show these cars doing the journeys they are designed for - commuting and routine city driving. 

My daily commute is 7 miles, and I could do the whole week on one charge of the Honda e. I am lucky enough to have the money and space to run several cars and I have a couple of ICE cars to drive if necessary/for fun. But after driving the Ioniq, a lot of the shine has gone off the ICE thing.

I'll use the 2-year lease on this Ioniq to see how I get on. But I can see myself selling off the ICE cars, if I can get the same fun factor in EV form.

relic245

LooseMoose said:

Whatever you do, lease!

I don't think that's always true.

We tend to buy new and then run them for 10 years or So.

While you are driving an older car by the end if it I think the overall cost of leasing would be higher. Especially if you buy cash as opposed to finance.

Also my annual mileage is usually 10k ish. Then out of the blue I had 2 years of doing more like 30k. Nothing makes me believe that may not happen again. That amount of extra miles on a lease car would cost a fortune.

RandallFlagg

relic245 said:

LooseMoose said:

Whatever you do, lease!

I don't think that's always true.

We tend to buy new and then run them for 10 years or So.

While you are driving an older car by the end if it I think the overall cost of leasing would be higher. Especially if you buy cash as opposed to finance.

Also my annual mileage is usually 10k ish. Then out of the blue I had 2 years of doing more like 30k. Nothing makes me believe that may not happen again. That amount of extra miles on a lease car would cost a fortune.

I agree and prefer to own things but the point here is that this is new technology on the upwards development curve and continually updating, leasing during this development phases avoids being stuck with a rapidly out of date electric car with yesterday's technology, dwindling battery life and resale value.

LooseMoose

Yep, unless you fancy having to eat the cost of replacement batteries and deal with practically non-existent independent mechanics network then leasing is the way to go. 

My sister in law has a five year old Leaf and it is sh*gged, not wearing it’s age well at all.

EricTheWeary

The model with electric cars is lease. Expensive to buy but cheap to run so monthly lease costs make sense seen that way. As technology changes so fast around them if you buy outright and own for years it may well be an unsellable car. 
It just becomes a fixed cost I guess and if you are grabbed by the urge to drive to the South of France probably rent a diesel. 

Danny1969

The battery tech differs between manufacturers, Tesla use the most tested and established battery tech, basically manufacturing their battery packs from thousands of well proven 18650 type lithium cells, the same cells used in laptops, drills, Bluetooth speakers etc. They have improved the design by adding more tag points and higher capacity by using a slightly larger can now but it's essentially the same well proven design that can last 10 to 15 years before it's down to around 60% of it's original energy storage capacity.  Petrol and diesel engines degrade too .... my wires 10 year old  Focus doesn't do 60MPG anymore, the rings are worn and other general wear on the engines has made it less fuel efficient. So it does less miles on a tank of diesel compared to when it was new,  same as a used Tesla gets less miles from it's battery compared to when it was new. 

What I think is needed on an electric car is small removable  sub battery that only gives a range of around 30 miles but can be indoors  to charge.  A pack could be designed that held around 1200 cells that would weight around 50kg .... so would need to be trolleyed in rather than carried in I guess but that's the way forward. 

wibble

Danny1969 said:

The battery tech differs between manufacturers, Tesla use the most tested and established battery tech, basically manufacturing their battery packs from thousands of well proven 18650 type lithium cells, the same cells used in laptops, drills, Bluetooth speakers etc. They have improved the design by adding more tag points and higher capacity by using a slightly larger can now but it's essentially the same well proven design that can last 10 to 15 years before it's down to around 60% of it's original energy storage capacity.  Petrol and diesel engines degrade too .... my wires 10 year old  Focus doesn't do 60MPG anymore, the rings are worn and other general wear on the engines has made it less fuel efficient. So it does less miles on a tank of diesel compared to when it was new,  same as a used Tesla gets less miles from it's battery compared to when it was new. 

What I think is needed on an electric car is small removable  sub battery that only gives a range of around 30 miles but can be indoors  to charge.  A pack could be designed that held around 1200 cells that would weight around 50kg .... so would need to be trolleyed in rather than carried in I guess but that's the way forward. 

NIO in China have automated battery swap stations...

djspecialist

Our 14y-old car failed its MOT a few weeks ago, and we decided it's time to replace with something newer. I'd love to go electric, but living in a terraced house in an area with practically no on-street charging infrastructure, I don't see how it can work. Which is particularly frustrating given that our typical usage (1-2 trips per week, almost always under 40 miles) would be perfect for an EV.

Is there _any_ benefit to using a hybrid which you never plug in?  I assume that the engine is able to run at peak efficiency when its just charging the battery as opposed to moving the car, but is that completely offset by the fact that (when it switches back to "traditional" mode with the ICE driving the wheels) it then has to lug all the weight of the battery and electric motor?

So I expect we'll end up with another ICE, and hope that by the next replacement (hopefully at least 5-7 years out), either there has been a significant shift towards fuel cells, or the charging infrastructure has got a whole lot better.

rlw

Fortunately, I'll probably not need to change cars again unless I buy a silly second car. 

When an electric car can do upwards of 800 miles a day, without needing to spend more time recharging than it takes to fill up once, I will consider it.

lapua65

I've got the Polestar 2 and get around 190 miles on a charge so far but weather getting warmer. Build quality is the on par with the Audi and it is great to drive. Software problems on the infotainment still a pain. I had a play with every fully electric car I could find and to me the best value to me was the Peugeot. I didn't get it as it was a tad too small but the tech was up with the best. The Polestar is a hatchback so more practical for me. I would only consider a Tesla if distance per charge were the only factor. 

strtdv

djspecialist said:

Our 14y-old car failed its MOT a few weeks ago, and we decided it's time to replace with something newer. I'd love to go electric, but living in a terraced house in an area with practically no on-street charging infrastructure, I don't see how it can work. Which is particularly frustrating given that our typical usage (1-2 trips per week, almost always under 40 miles) would be perfect for an EV.

Is there _any_ benefit to using a hybrid which you never plug in?  I assume that the engine is able to run at peak efficiency when its just charging the battery as opposed to moving the car, but is that completely offset by the fact that (when it switches back to "traditional" mode with the ICE driving the wheels) it then has to lug all the weight of the battery and electric motor?

So I expect we'll end up with another ICE, and hope that by the next replacement (hopefully at least 5-7 years out), either there has been a significant shift towards fuel cells, or the charging infrastructure has got a whole lot better.

No.

Plug in hybrids are only useful if you plug them in and drive short distances, otherwise you're just driving a petrol car that's 250kg heavier than it needs to be

strtdv

I'd seriously consider EV in the next few years.

Tesla need to give in and add an instrument binnacle or HUD. Build quality has got better but still isn't good enough for a £50k car.

VWs offerings haven't been exciting enough to tempt me.

Audi need to sort out their range.

The Jaguar I-pace looks good but I'm not sure I'd ever own a Jag out of warranty. On paper could be good to lease though.

I'm hoping Volvo bring out a fully electric V60 or V90, I'd happily drive one of those

Haych

I've been contemplating an i3 for a while, would love one and if it's feasible when the old 5 series packs up I might go for it.

At the moment I see no point in rushing to replace it.  My mileage has dropped dramatically since the start of last year and while it's a thirsty old beast I could keep it going for a good few years on fuel, maintenance and repairs with what it would cost me in the same time on even a used i3 or equivalent.

It's also more environmentally friendly to keep it going rather than replace it.

But for just nipping around town, running errands and general domestic stuff as I am now doing a small belectric (sic) car would be perfect.

What's the deal with charging, though?  Do you need to have a charging point installed at home or can you more or less just plug into mains electricity?