Potential break away European super football league

guitars4you

Will be great to find out if we have any managers with integrity - Let's see Pep and Klopp walk away - They can afford it - Head held high and many of the fans would endorse their stance - Both can get a job elsewhere as required 

Hard for players with existing contracts to do to much - But maybe somewhat farcical but still a statement - They get on the pitch and effectively don't play for the balance of this season inc cup matches - E Germany + W Germany did this, was it 1974, albeit a different reason - Again make a stance and many players can then remember where they came from - ie lower leagues at junior level etc 

guitars4you

You have to assume that the deal has been done with the owners - For it to have been kept so quiet until yesterday - Bring more 'executives' into play at early discussions and sooner or later it would have been leaked - Granted there has been talk about such a league for a while but with no substance behind it - This was different 

boogieman

guitars4you said:

Will be great to find out if we have any managers with integrity - Let's see Pep and Klopp walk away - They can afford it - Head held high and many of the fans would endorse their stance - Both can get a job elsewhere as required 

Hard for players with existing contracts to do to much - But maybe somewhat farcical but still a statement - They get on the pitch and effectively don't play for the balance of this season inc cup matches - E Germany + W Germany did this, was it 1974, albeit a different reason - Again make a stance and many players can then remember where they came from - ie lower leagues at junior level etc 

I dunno. They presumably signed a contract for specific circumstances, which might not cover appearing in a breakaway league. A decent lawyer might be able to argue that the contract isn’t binding. Whether they’d bother is a different question of course, as most players probably don’t give a monkeys. Pat Nevin made a decent point on BBC news this morning, most players don’t give a shit about loyalty, they just follow the money. When Seria A had all the dough, all the big name players went there. Now the money’s here a lot are in the Premier League. 

UnclePsychosis

boogieman said:

UnclePsychosis said:

boogieman said:

Cant see this making money long term. A lot of fans won’t be able to travel to games all over Europe on a regular basis, even with covid restrictions lifted: realistically those could be with us for years yet. So income is going to be limited there. That leaves tv coverage... I’m sure any tv package would start off priced reasonably but the prices will have to get jacked up fairly quickly to cover the enormous costs that this circus will inevitably generate. Who wants to watch their team just on tv anyway? A lot of the appeal of the game is actually being there. 

Truly terrible idea based on pure greed, nothing else. 

I think this view is somewhat antiquated when it comes to finance. 

For starters, the likes of Barcelona basically don't have (or get) much of an away support (basically non existent in Spanish football). England is something of an anomaly when it comes to away fan culture. 

Its *all* about the TV money. Fans in the stadium make it look better on TV, but other than that the big clubs can probably do without them. 

Quite possible it’s an “antiquated” view. I’ve always supported one of the minor teams (QPR) which has never had much tv exposure. I do have to say that the tv coverage at the moment, without fans in the stadium, is a pretty crap experience. Zero atmosphere, no excitement. Personally I wouldn’t pay to watch it. 

Me too, my team is small and barely ever on TV.

Its a bit of a weird one - like you say without the fans watching on TV is shit. The super clubs need them to make the atmosphere more than the money. 

That said, I suspect that 1. as much as lots of fans will complain about it, lots will quite happily pay to watch Liverpool against Barcelona, Juventus, etc every week and 2. football tourism will definitely become a thing. 

UnclePsychosis

Hattigol said:

Questions:

Q. Will the players agree to play for these clubs if they know they are going to be banned from playing for their country? 

Of course they will.

Anyone who thinks poor kids are going to pass up the chance to earn £100k, £200k, £300k a week because they've got some romanticised view of maybe having a chance at winning the World Cup (a tournament which only about 400 players in the history of football have won) is kidding themselves, sadly. 

What we're looking at here is the NFL/MLB-isation of football (which is not surprising, when you see who owns the clubs). Those leagues don't have "international breaks" because the players don't play international sport, and nobody cares. What they do have, though, is a closed shop which means the owners don't haemorrhage money by accidentally missing out one year, and they have a wage cap that keeps the owners from having to compete with that one guy splashing the cash.

That's what this is all about. Its the owners of the super clubs protecting their money - lock in elite football "forever" and then create ways to stop them all from runaway spending by some new upstart. 

Wazmeister

Its irrelevant what ‘we’ think...

The first payment to each club, apparently, will be 3.5 biliion !!!

guitars4you

Look at the PL table today - take 30 points of each of the elite 6 and interesting reading - Start next season at minus 30 points and year in year out - If it means relegation then tough but still keep the 30 point deduction each year - And no domestic knockout matches for them

Bonus thought - All the other clubs, be it Europe or PL/EFL - You can't buy players or indeed loan players from the elite clubs whatsoever - Give them no additional support - Players at elite clubs will have to wait until any current contract expires, so effectively they start a new club with no transfer fee - So any disenfranchised player at an elite club will just have to grin and bear it until they can move on for nothing, or released - Might make a few players think about signing for such clubs especially if they will only be fringe players 

Teetonetal

boogieman said:

 Pat Nevin made a decent point on BBC news this morning, most players don’t give a shit about loyalty, they just follow the money. When Seria A had all the dough, all the big name players went there. Now the money’s here a lot are in the Premier League. 

Which is understandable, given that football for these guys is just job and the club is just an employer. Fans always have a romanticised viewpoint on player loyalty - but I guess it comes down to the same things all of us look for in an employer, a supportive work environment where you are compensated well and are set up to succeed.  Take these things away and we would all look elsewhere for employment. Just because they have desirable jobs, does not mean the thought process magically changes.

guitars4you said:

Look at the PL table today - take 30 points of each of the elite 6 and interesting reading - Start next season at minus 30 points and year in year out - If it means relegation then tough but still keep the 30 point deduction each year - And no domestic knockout matches for them

Bonus thought - All the other clubs, be it Europe or PL/EFL - You can't buy players or indeed loan players from the elite clubs whatsoever - Give them no additional support - Players at elite clubs will have to wait until any current contract expires, so effectively they start a new club with no transfer fee - So any disenfranchised player at an elite club will just have to grin and bear it until they can move on for nothing, or released - Might make a few players think about signing for such clubs especially if they will only be fringe players 

I think that undermines the credibility of the league a lot. Do you really want to watch a league where the winners are not one of the 6 best sides in the country that season? As a fan, I would find such a league a joke and not worth the bother.

Either ban them completely and enforce zero player trade between clubs (across all formats and levels, inc youth).,or work on a solution.

If UEFA want to stop this, they have to make the risk of taking part far exceed the reward.
  

scrumhalf

All those who talk of bans, fines and demotions should read about the litigation that followed the banning of England cricketers after they signed for Kerry Packer.

The national FAs cannot just do as they please. And if there's enough money to give the clubs a golden hello of a bazillion quid there will be enough money for some weighty lawsuits.

I still think that this is a power play for a revised Champions League, coupled with a slimming down of the Prem to 18 clubs and then 16.

crunchman

The problem is that most of the money will be from elsewhere in the world.  Fans in this country don't care much about the Champions League but it is a big money spinner around the world.  The 6 English clubs involved in this probably think they will make more money from that than they will lose locally.

For the Spanish clubs, you also have to remember that their domestic leagues are a total joke.

At the same time, the FA, UEFA, and FIFA can't cave into them.  If this goes ahead, these clubs should be booted out of their domestic leagues for next season.  Any of their players should be banned from international football once their existing contracts are finished.

While they are at it, they should bring back tackling and make the game more honest.  If we are getting rid of all the prima donnas who don't think that defenders should be allowed to tackle them, then make the most of the opportunity.

drofluf

Wazmeister said:

Its irrelevant what ‘we’ think...

The first payment to each club, apparently, will be 3.5 biliion !!!

Not quite it's a share of that pot according to the BBC



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56768728

guitars4you

Teetonetal said:

guitars4you said:

Look at the PL table today - take 30 points of each of the elite 6 and interesting reading - Start next season at minus 30 points and year in year out - If it means relegation then tough but still keep the 30 point deduction each year - And no domestic knockout matches for them

Bonus thought - All the other clubs, be it Europe or PL/EFL - You can't buy players or indeed loan players from the elite clubs whatsoever - Give them no additional support - Players at elite clubs will have to wait until any current contract expires, so effectively they start a new club with no transfer fee - So any disenfranchised player at an elite club will just have to grin and bear it until they can move on for nothing, or released - Might make a few players think about signing for such clubs especially if they will only be fringe players 

I think that undermines the credibility of the league a lot. Do you really want to watch a league where the winners are not one of the 6 best sides in the country that season? As a fan, I would find such a league a joke and not worth the bother.

Either ban them completely and enforce zero player trade between clubs (across all formats and levels, inc youth).,or work on a solution.

If UEFA want to stop this, they have to make the risk of taking part far exceed the reward.
  

awkward in many ways - What is an elite club

around 20 years ago Man City struggled to beat Gillingham in a play off final at Wembley
40 years ago Aston Villa won the Champions League - and around the same time Notts Forest won it twice

The point is, in a promotion/relegation system, the winners/losers can come and go - I think there is a stat somewhere that even in the 30 odd years of the PL that over 1/2 the clubs in the English league have competed in the PL

First year of the PL and the top 6 were Man Utd, Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, QPR and Liverpool - Would have been interesting if such a super league started in 1992 

Porto and Ajax all have CL success - Ditto Celtic and they have a monstrous world support - Yet none considered for a new elite league

Additional - let's say the top 6 elite clubs finish in the top 6 places in the PL -  Which is possible - So under the new proposed super league program, 5 places will be offered to other clubs each year on a performance basis - Does that mean 7th in the PL can then join the new super league for 1 year - They probably won't give one of their 5 places to the elite league to the likes of a club from a smaller league, ie Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Sweden

Jackobean

Obviously a lamentable development, but it's difficult to have sympathy for any governing body's righteous indignation.
They rubbed their greedy palms together when the Glazers and their ilk bought into the game - a breakaway super league is just the culmination of a long decline. 

rocktron

I recall that something almost similar happened in cricket where top players signed up for the Kerry Packer World Series. Those players were banned from representing their countries.

As I recall, Kerry Packer introduced many new ideas to cricket.

Eventually, the Cricket Authorities in each country and the ICC spoke with the organisers of the Kerry Packer World Series. The banned players were reinstated.

I suspect that the FA of each country and FIFA will also eventually speak with the organisers of this breakaway Super League. I don't think that the idea of a Super League will go away.

UnclePsychosis

crunchman said:

The problem is that most of the money will be from elsewhere in the world.  Fans in this country don't care much about the Champions League but it is a big money spinner around the world.  The 6 English clubs involved in this probably think they will make more money from that than they will lose locally.

Spot on. For everyone other than a few hundred thousand British people the Premier League "is"  Liverpool/Man Utd/Chelsea/Man City/Arsenal. The other clubs don't matter globally. 

Smaller clubs like Norwich, West Brom etc. have been kidding themselves if they think the TV money has anything to do with what they bring to the table.

A few years ago I went to Korea. In my hotel room there was a "sports" channel. There were 'highlight shows' that just showed nothing but Liverpool games, nothing but Chelsea games, etc.

I'm exaggerating slightly but times have changed. Elite football is about money and has nothing to do with supporting your local team anymore.

If this goes ahead, look at the NFL and the MLB. Closed shops that rake in huge sums. The Franchises literally move cities and it very rarely harms them. 

crunchman

rocktron said:

I recall that something almost similar happened in cricket where top players signed up for the Kerry Packer World Series. Those players were banned from representing their countries.

As I recall, Kerry Packer introduced many new ideas to cricket.

Eventually, the Cricket Authorities in each country and the ICC spoke with the organisers of the Kerry Packer World Series. The banned players were reinstated.

I suspect that the FA of each country and FIFA will also eventually speak with the organisers of this breakaway Super League. I don't think that the idea of a Super League will go away.

That was the players leaving though.  It wasn't like Surrey and Yorkshire just set up their own league in competition with the County Championship.

You can't stop an individual from offering his services wherever he wants, but it is a different situation for a club.  You can't stop them from setting up their own league in competition with yours, but you don't have to support them doing it.  If you don't boot them out of the Premier League, you are effectively supporting them.

Kerry Packer was also a very different situation as the players were massively underpaid and the boards kept almost all the money. One of the major outcomes of Kerry Packer was players getting decent wages when it was over.  Before that it was so bad that some international cricketers still had regular jobs in the offseason if they weren't on tour.  In football, player wages are close to bankrupting the game. It's not the same situation.

bloodandtears

hard enough watching spurs be nearly runs year after year... they'll be whipping boys in that company...  grim(mer) times ahead.

guitars4you

bloodandtears said:

hard enough watching spurs be nearly runs year after year... they'll be whipping boys in that company...  grim(mer) times ahead.

and no Jose - just sacked

UnclePsychosis

bloodandtears said:

hard enough watching spurs be nearly runs year after year... they'll be whipping boys in that company...  grim(mer) times ahead.

Yep, but money talks.

According to Forbes, the "worst" team in the NFL is still valued at $2bn+. And they can't get relegated. Its a cash cow. 

Teetonetal

guitars4you said:

bloodandtears said:

hard enough watching spurs be nearly runs year after year... they'll be whipping boys in that company...  grim(mer) times ahead.

and no Jose - just sacked

Good news. but just before a cup final seems a little odd! I assume they are hoping for a bounce back effect to motivate the team.

Suspect that Levi is eyeing up Flick?

Hopefully the end of Mourinho in the UK though, he's been a spent force for quite a number of years now.