Gilmour...

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Loobs said:
    Cirrus said:
    Loobs said:
    dazzajl said:
    Also, I would say that Waters is a lyrical genius. 
    Breathe, breathe in the air. Don't be afraid to care. 

    Hardly Leonard Cohen, was he? 
    But I hear him coughing, all night long.


    Lyrics devoid of context are shit.
    Tbh, most of Cohen's lyrics stand up pretty well without music, if that's what you mean. 
    It's probably a discussion for another thread, but I just don't think you can judge lyrics in that way. The example you gave is simple, yes, but it does what it needs to do in the context of the song and the album. Neither of us know what Cohen would have done with that space if he'd been presented with the music and the themes Dark Side of the Moon deals with.

    A simple line can have great emotional resonance as part of a piece of music. Whether it hits you right? That just comes down to your own taste.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    For me the whole point of music is to move someone, provoke an emotion .... might just be yourself but in general the best playing can "move" people ... literally make the hairs on the back of their neck stand up. This is the bit where you need to be a genius because I don't think you can teach it. Gilmour uses  a relatively small selection of notes and no real tricks really but he manages to provoke a lot of emotion in people with just that ..... that's a genius skill cos if it could be taught we would all be doing it :) 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    AlexC said:
    Bottom line is - it's downto personal taste is all. If you love speed metal or country chicken pickin' then chances are you don't 'rate' Gilmour. 
    We're not children though, we're perfectly capable of objectively discussing things which are essentially subjective in nature. 

    I like lots of "crap" music because it moves me in some way or another, but I'm not going to defend the first Ramones album on the same terms I would Stravinsky or Bach. 

    I like fairly jagged music, with obvious, sometimes crass punctuation and dynamics, and Pink Floyd never gave me that, it always sounded smooth and safe to me.  
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    Loobs said:
    Genius? Not even close. Barrett was closer to genius than Gilmour will ever be. 

    Gilmour is a very good guitarist with a good voice who can write ok songs and who made some great contributions to PF's music. 

    I'd say the songs inspired by Barrett are far better than anything with Barrett. 
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    Barrett's "genius" was romantically disappearing, nobody would even talk about him now if he'd hung around, just like nobody talks about Soft Machine. 
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  • LoobsLoobs Frets: 3831
    Like nobody would talk about Hendrix or Elvis if they were still around? So why do people still talk about Gilmour and Clapton ad nauseum? 
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  • LoobsLoobs Frets: 3831
    Loobs said:
    Genius? Not even close. Barrett was closer to genius than Gilmour will ever be. 

    Gilmour is a very good guitarist with a good voice who can write ok songs and who made some great contributions to PF's music. 

    I'd say the songs inspired by Barrett are far better than anything with Barrett. 
    I think you either get SB Floyd or you don't. Personally I don't think you can compare Interstellar Overdrive or Astronome Domine with Shine On You Crazy Diamond, but yeah, it's a matter of taste. 
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    Neither. Very good player with exceptional feel and tone. Tasteful rather than tasty, as it were
    That sums it up for me.

    I'm old enough to remember a time when he didn't get the recognition of contemporaries such as Clapton, Page, Beck and Blackmore. Which I thought was odd as I've always really liked his playing. At least he gets decent recognition now.

    It's not a competition.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    Genius? No. The word gets banded around too freely. 

    A player with exceptional taste and feel? Yes

    To me a genius would be someone like Allan Holdsworth, who's thinking was on a different plane of existence to everyone else. I would also include Steve Vai as someone with exceptional ability plus a mind that wants to create outside the box.
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    edited April 2021
    I always think the term ‘genius’ is unhelpful. The majority of people who are considered to be musical geniuses simply have a level of innate ability which is above average. Someone with less natural talent will have to work a lot harder at their craft and probably won’t ever reach the heights of the person who’s ‘gifted’.

    All my favourite players have a recognisable character in their playing - two or three notes and you know who they are. Gilmour is definitely in that camp. One of the greats in my book - but not a genius.

    That doesn’t mean he’s vastly over-rated....
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    edited April 2021
    axisus said:
    Genius? No. The word gets banded around too freely. 

    A player with exceptional taste and feel? Yes

    To me a genius would be someone like Allan Holdsworth, who's thinking was on a different plane of existence to everyone else. I would also include Steve Vai as someone with exceptional ability plus a mind that wants to create outside the box.

    You could say that anyone could "create outside the box". But if most people consider it to be crap is it still genius? 

    Not saying those guys are crap BTW.
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  • LoobsLoobs Frets: 3831
    To me, genius has nothing to do with facility or ability on the instrument; that's a virtuoso. It's more about vision, scope, innovation and creativity. That's why I would never call Gilmour a genius, or anything like it. That's why Barrett could be considered one. He was groundbreaking. 
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2393
    The Madcap Laughs is a work of pure genius. Personally I find everything Floyd did after Echoes crashingly dull.

    I don't really understand why you'd venerate Gilmour as a guitarist when there were much better players in other 70s prog bands -- Fripp, Howe etc.
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  • LoobsLoobs Frets: 3831
    Well, Gilmour does have a really nice sound. 
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    Stuckfast said:
    The Madcap Laughs is a work of pure genius. Personally I find everything Floyd did after Echoes crashingly dull.

    I don't really understand why you'd venerate Gilmour as a guitarist when there were much better players in other 70s prog bands -- Fripp, Howe etc.

    Because music is measure subjectively, not objectively.

    The only way you can measure objectively is by how many albums sold and how many guitarists he inspired to play/influenced or play his licks, and on both of those measurements, he's miles ahead of Fripp and Howe.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • edenfield99edenfield99 Frets: 349
    Stuckfast said:
    The Madcap Laughs is a work of pure genius. Personally I find everything Floyd did after Echoes crashingly dull.

    I don't really understand why you'd venerate Gilmour as a guitarist when there were much better players in other 70s prog bands -- Fripp, Howe etc.
    I don't really understand how you can class Fripp and Howe as better guitarists, they do very little for me compared to Gilmour (and I'm not even a massive Floyd/Gilmour fan)


    But that's the beauty of music isn't it, we all like what we like :)
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Wasn't the Madcap Laughs produced by Gilmour ? 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    Danny1969 said:
    Wasn't the Madcap Laughs produced by Gilmour ? 
    He mastered the final version at Syd's request, but IIRC there were about 4 producers on it.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • LoobsLoobs Frets: 3831
    Didn't Syd produce On An Island? 
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    Loobs said:
    Didn't Syd produce On An Island? 

    No- Manzanera....

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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