DISTANCE SELLING REGS

ThorpyFX

I thought I'd start this discussion as there were some good points going on on the other thread.

So as per the law anyone selling online has to abide by distance selling regulations. this is a fact and unequivocal. However i thought Id throw in a  few things that people may not be aware of and even my own stance upon it.


as a company owner, i obviously do my best to ensure a product ships in a timely and safe manner. I want customers to be happy and enjoy any product I make. Being realistic, sometimes people don't get on with what we make and i understand that they may want to ship them back. However there are a number of things that hurt as a business owner and I'm certain not everyone is aware.


1) we get charged by our website and payment provider 3-4% even if you cancel your order. This isn't returned to us and has a significant affect on the bottom line. Some may say that we should bake that in to the RRP, and yes simple logic suggests that is the case... however realistically we have to compete and adding 4% to every RRP to cover this eventuality would hurt the bottom line too.
2) its not free to ship. Firstly we employ someone to do shipping and we use brand new packaging for every order regardless. these all attract a cost that is lost if the item is cancelled. and the shipping cost isn't insignificant either. 
3) any damaged (mild or otherwise) product cannot be sold at anything close to RRP and consequently another cost to the business.

In short buying to try costs any business money and when margins are tight, can significantly hurt a business. 


My personal stance on my purchases that i make sits as follows. if im unsure ill like it i either

a)don't buy
b)buy knowing ill sell on of its not to my taste
c)make the effort to go and try it.

why do i do this, well i feel personally that if the product is fine and its just me that doesn't like it, then thats my fault and the shop/seller shouldn't suffer. Lots of other peoples moral compasses are different, i get that too.


anyway, what do you all think?

monquixote

All the wisdoms.

I will return something that I don't like, but I need to be pretty sure I'm going to keep it before I buy.

I'll usually only take a total punt on something if it's in a mega blow out because I can probably move it on at a minimal hit which I generally do.

I'm also far less likely to return something to a small business than I am to Thomann.

exocet

I've only ever returned one piece of gear under distance selling terms. My default position now for anything "bought in error" is to simply suck it up and take the loss myself. 

Wazmeister

I buy a LOT of gear, and send some back if it doesn't work out...

But I am very careful how I handle the goods, and always return them very securely (often better than I received them..)

The likes of Andertons, G4M, Juno, GG and GAK get my money because their returns are effortless. G4M especially are superb.

I always use these as next day delivery are excellent.

Just my thoughts.

shaunm

@ThorpyFX i didn’t comment on the other thread but I agree with you totally. 

I’m not sure why someone would buy something only to try it. To me that smacks of boredom and something I’ve mentioned on here several times of late - addictive shopping masquerading as jovial GAS. “Sod everyone else I’m having my fix”

WiresDreamDisasters

If it's a big box shifter, I don't give a shit. If it's a small homegrown act like you or Feline, then I would give a shit and would follow your rough guidelines.

If the food is crap at McDonald's, I don't quietly send it back and give the owners some feedback. I just chalk it up to a shitty purchase. But if something happens at my local favourite cafe, I quietly pull the owner aside and give them my feedback so that they can shape their business and make sure the shitty thing didn't happen again.

Not sure that's relevant really.

Wazmeister

shaunm said:

@ThorpyFX i didn’t comment on the other thread but I agree with you totally. 

I’m not sure why someone would buy something only to try it. To me that smacks of boredom and something I’ve mentioned on here several times of late - addictive shopping masquerading as jovial GAS. “Sod everyone else I’m having my fix”

The reality is Adrian is that you are not understandably keen on returns; ultimately, it may mean that people don't buy direct from you and go say to Andertons.

But i guess its win win either way

But, you do have a returns policy on your website, and some people might want to utilise that.

shaunm

@Wazmeister i know Adrian will have a returns policy but I feel it’s more there to give piece of mind to the buyer regarding quality guarantee. Legally it means he has to adhere to distance rules of course.

I guess it’s down to an individual if you are willing to cost Adrian money personally to try his pedal. That’s a choice. Anyone is in their rights to do it but it is a choice of the buyer. 

The flip side is if you got the pedal, thought it was going to be a love in but you don’t like it. That’s genuine, no harm no foul. But people buying just to try it with no intention of keeping are fairly low.

Wazmeister

shaunm said:

@Wazmeister i know Adrian will have a returns policy but I feel it’s more there to give piece of mind to the buyer regarding quality guarantee. Legally it means he has to adhere to distance rules of course.

I guess it’s down to an individual if you are willing to cost Adrian money personally to try his pedal. That’s a choice. Anyone is in their rights to do it but it is a choice of the buyer. 

The flip side is if you got the pedal, thought it was going to be a love in but you don’t like it. That’s genuine, no harm no foul. But people buying just to try it with no intention of keeping are fairly low.

Yes, I wouldnt do it to Ade as i now know it costs him... and ive bought directvfrom him several times

But do a lot of people do this just to have a free demo ? With no intentions of keeping it ?

Im amazed at that; maybe im niave.

Lebarque

While I agree with all that in principal, the rise of internet commerce (now accelerated by Covid) and the demise of brick and mortar shops can make it difficult for consumers to try before buying. In reality, how many people would drive an hour (incurring petrol coats etc.) to try out a pedal, when they could get it posted for a couple of quid and return it? It's just a reality of retail these days. Consumers have got it good.

In addition, internet retailers such as Asos have made returning stuff the norm, knowing that their business model doesn't work without customers being able to check whether clothes fit and return them (really easily) if they don't. The retail landscape has changed, especially with fitting rooms still closed at the mo.

@ThorpyFX You mentioned brand new packaging for each order. I assume that's so everything is pristine? How about recycling packaging and making a feature of it (plaster it over the packaging), thus gaining you green credentials and reducing costs? As a fussy bugger consumer, I'd buy into that. Also, how about something like the tourboxes we sometimes see on here? One of each of your pedals being passed between trialists. They wouldn't mind if it was battered and maybe it would save on trial and returns. Just thinking out loud.

Where I do object is where the returns process is abused. I highly suspect that some YouTube channels buy pedals, demo/review them, then return them. That leaves a real sour taste.

mendy

 

monquixote

Wazmeister said:

shaunm said:

@Wazmeister i know Adrian will have a returns policy but I feel it’s more there to give piece of mind to the buyer regarding quality guarantee. Legally it means he has to adhere to distance rules of course.

I guess it’s down to an individual if you are willing to cost Adrian money personally to try his pedal. That’s a choice. Anyone is in their rights to do it but it is a choice of the buyer. 

The flip side is if you got the pedal, thought it was going to be a love in but you don’t like it. That’s genuine, no harm no foul. But people buying just to try it with no intention of keeping are fairly low.

Yes, I wouldnt do it to Ade as i now know it costs him... and ive bought directvfrom him several times

But do a lot of people do this just to have a free demo ? With no intentions of keeping it ?

Im amazed at that; maybe im niave.

Yes they do.

There is a huge problem in the clothes industry where people buy stuff photo it for their Instagram and then send it back.

I know of people who buy so much stuff from builders / shops that they've been blacklisted as a customer because they are just chancers and have the audacity to rage about how unfair it is.

Paul_C

I've bought a lot of pedals over the last few years . . .

I have never considered returning something because I didn't like it.

I'm aware that I could, but it doesn't seem right to me.

I would send something back if it wasn't working or was damaged though.

Lebarque

Boot on the other foot - I returned a mobile phone to Argos the other week (it was shit). I was treated like I was committing a heinous crime! Suck it up, box shifter - it's the law!

bgmartinsbridge

Personally, I only buy with the intention of keeping and would only send back if something is wrong. 

The challenge faced is with the reduction in physical shops and the rise of pure play like Amazon or even small online retailers, and therefore there is nowhere to try products. I guess that's one of the big reasons for distance selling regs. 

Musicwolf

I can't recall an occasion whereby I've returned an item because I decided that I didn't want it, but I'm an older generation and I suspect that I represent a dwindling percentage of the market.

There does need to be protection in place to protect the consumer, and I suspect that the ‘bricks and mortar’ side of retail would say that the cost of returns is nothing when compared to the cost of high street rent and overheads, but it does annoy me when I read comments from people who order something and then return it, not because the product doesn’t match up to the billing, but because the consumer hadn’t thought things through.

“I wanted something to adjust the truss rod on my guitar so I ordered this hammer online.  Turns out that I need an Alan Key, so it’s going back”.

shaunm

Wazmeister said:

shaunm said:

@Wazmeister i know Adrian will have a returns policy but I feel it’s more there to give piece of mind to the buyer regarding quality guarantee. Legally it means he has to adhere to distance rules of course.

I guess it’s down to an individual if you are willing to cost Adrian money personally to try his pedal. That’s a choice. Anyone is in their rights to do it but it is a choice of the buyer. 

The flip side is if you got the pedal, thought it was going to be a love in but you don’t like it. That’s genuine, no harm no foul. But people buying just to try it with no intention of keeping are fairly low.

Yes, I wouldnt do it to Ade as i now know it costs him... and ive bought directvfrom him several times

But do a lot of people do this just to have a free demo ? With no intentions of keeping it ?

Im amazed at that; maybe im niave.

You say niave @Wazmeister i say decent. 

I think there probably would be quite a few folk like that. I know people who have ordered three of one guitar, try them and keep the one they like and return two. Unreal! 

Grangousier

Another downside of this is that they get the product back and it goes back on the shelf and is sent out to the next person. So it's not really new, even if you're paying the new prices. Soon as someone takes it out of the box, it's second-hand. 

poopot

Wazmeister said:

The reality is Adrian is that you are not understandably keen on returns; ultimately, it may mean that people don't buy direct from you and go say to Andertons.

@ThorpyFX ;

if someone buys from Andertons and returns it, do Andertons then return it to you?

Wazmeister

Grangousier said:

Another downside of this is that they get the product back and it goes back on the shelf and is sent out to the next person. So it's not really new, even if you're paying the new prices. Soon as someone takes it out of the box, it's second-hand. 

Exactly the same as buying a guitar off the shelf in a bricks and mortar shop ?

Wazmeister

You say niave @Wazmeister i say decent. 

I think there probably would be quite a few folk like that. I know people who have ordered three of one guitar, try them and keep the one they like and return two. Unreal! 

I must say Im really struggling here with this...

If the retailer is happy with sending 3 guitars (for example), and the buyer actually buys one, what is the difference between this and trying in a shop ?