Where’s my bass?

mrleon83

Hello! So hoping to get advise from someone that knows more than me .. I’m using KRK Rokit 5s in a large summerhouse and noticed (when listening to some old school hip hop) that the bass response in the room is rather weak.

my initial though was ‘ I need bass traps’ and was going to make them, but my understanding is that they’re used to tame too much bass (?) , I guess the other thing could be the cone size so I began looking at bigger monitors , but. Or too sure what to try first

The KRK’s are g2 so only have a high eq setting, I know if I was to place them in corners the bass would be more balanced but that’s not an option unfortunately 

Musicwolf

Bass traps don't just tame excessive bass, they even it out.  What is happening is that you hear sound arriving at your ears not just directly from your monitors but also indirectly after bouncing off walls, floors, ceilings, desks etc.  The indirect sound has a different (longer) path length so it arrives later and, depending upon the frequency, will be in or out of phase with the direct sound.  Where it is out of phase you get destructive interference which reduces the volume.  Add to this standing waves where the wavelength of certain frequencies is equal to the path length or the room dimension and, in a small room, you have very uneven frequency response.

The worst situation occurs when you have room dimensions that are very similar to one another and the very worst is a cube with the listener’s ears placed at the very centre.  Unfortunately this description applies to something like a spare bedroom.

The solution is bass traps / broadband absorbers placed at strategic points.  The smaller the room the more absorbers you need (which of course is difficult as you need room to make music).  This is why it is so important to also use a decent set of openbacked headphones to check what is going on with the low end.

Big monitors in a small room will make things worse, not better.

mrleon83

@Musicwolf thanks for the deatailed response, so therefore, if I put bass traps up, the bass will be heard more as it’s reverberating less? 

Musicwolf

Reverberating is the wrong term, but it will even things out.  Just be aware that a small room will always be a problem, that's just the physics.  When you are looking at bass traps I would take the DIY approach.  You need dense mineral wool, such as Rockwool RW3, and it needs to be covered in breathable fabric (I use Cara fabric for a good finish).  Treat the mirror points first.  Sit in your listening position and the mirror points are where you could place a mirror flat against the wall or ceiling and be able to see the monitors reflected image (if you can play snooker / pool then it’s the point on the cushion where you would aim in order to pot the ball from ear to monitor – if that makes sense?  Angle of incidence = angle of reflection).  In the corners of the room you want to be putting the absorbers across the corner and ideally extending from floor to ceiling.  For low end you need the absorbers to be spaced away from the wall.

Do not waste time and money on foam tiles.  They do nothing for the low end and, because they absorb the highs / high-mids, they can make the room sound boxy.

My room looks like this.  I don't have anywhere near enough absorbers in there at the moment;

Winny_Pooh

Rokit5s.... that won't help big clear bass. In fact you will have little idea what is happening under 90hz.... 
Try sitting 1-3 feet farther from the speakers as you will hear different parts of the low end due to the length of the wave in the room. 

Whistler

mrleon83 said:

I’m using KRK Rokit 5s in a large summerhouse and noticed (when listening to some old school hip hop) that the bass response in the room is rather weak. 

One possible reason that you perceive the sound as weaker in the bass is the the summerhouse probably has less dense walls that where you used to listen through your Rokits and as such less bass is retained in the room. If this is so then what you are hearing is a flatter response, which is good (although your taste for bass may disagree with thgat) and also, more bass is getting and will be more easily heard by people nearby.

Musicwolf and Winny-Pooh are speaking the truth.

mrleon83

Thanks all for the responses, here's the room I'm dealing with (need to refurb it anyway so ignore the peeling paper! )

Musicwolf

If possible, you want the speakers firing down the long length of the room.  The speakers need to form an equilateral triangle with your head in one corner.  For best results the listening position should be 38% down the long length of the room.

How close the speakers need to be to the wall / corners depends upon their design and how the trim switches are set.  Closer generally means more bass so the trim switches would try to compensate fpr this.

mrleon83

@Musicwolf Thankyou! So it’s a fairly square room so no particular long wall. The speakers have a front facing port, my assumption is with that that they can be placed fairly close to the wall? Right now they’re about 8 inches from the wall 

mrleon83

Holy crap, positioning has been a quick win, I was in a flat triangle! 

Musicwolf

See if you can download a Sweep Tone wav or Sweep Tone Generator from t'internet.  1kHz down to 20Hz sort of region.  If the room is 'flat' the volume should be constant (although your monitors and your ears will drop off towards the lower end).  What you are more likely to hear are a series of resonances as the various room modes are excited (you'll also hear certain objects in the room start to rattle).  You can try different positions a hear the effect.  Your Roket's are ported and there will likely be a hump in their response towards the lower end of their quoted frequency response.

Maintaining room symmetry is also desirable but real world considerations such as doors and windows have a habit of buggering things up.

mrleon83

@Musicwolf cool I’ll give that a go, I think I might pick up some desk speaker clamps as i can’t get them close enough together and still have the desk sit/standing… 

octatonic

Pull them back from the wall.
I would also change the orientation of that room so the desk is not against the wall either.

Here is how I have my studio set up- the seated position is 38% along the room length, the monitors form an equilateral triangle with the seated position.

Bass traps won't fix a bad room or a bad set up but they can help.
Also look at room correction- Sonarworks on a budget or Trinnov at the high end.

chotu495

@octatonic - your setup looks amazing 

octatonic

chotu495 said:

@octatonic - your setup looks amazing 

Thanks- it is a good playground.