Murphy Labs finish defects

RaymondLin

I love my 20 year old Custom Shop one, it's a Les Paul, same formula, have the logo, job done for me.

HandwrittenHero

Collings said:

There are still a fair few Murphy Lab guitars listed on UK dealers websites. I pity someone that buys one of these with potential problems without any warning as they have not read about the problem on the various forums where it's being discussed.

Yep, equally someone who has bought and then discovers the issue...or my other concern would be someone who buys one second hand that lived a very sheltered life and issue only presents down the line...where do people stand as not the original owner etc. Or for that matter, how the second hand value shifts down the line...do people assume I'm selling a lemon and swerve it or is it suddenly unobtanium, rare wood era, mythical discontinued v1 formula etc.

WezV

HandwrittenHero said:

do people assume I'm selling a lemon and swerve it or is it suddenly unobtanium, rare wood era, mythical discontinued v1 formula etc.

exhibit A

https://reverb.com/item/39735673-insanely-rare-416-of-500-original-pearl-white-finish-fender-25th-anniversary-stratocaster-1979

tomajoha

WezV said:

HandwrittenHero said:

do people assume I'm selling a lemon and swerve it or is it suddenly unobtanium, rare wood era, mythical discontinued v1 formula etc.

exhibit A

https://reverb.com/item/39735673-insanely-rare-416-of-500-original-pearl-white-finish-fender-25th-anniversary-stratocaster-1979

Certificate of Merit 

HandwrittenHero

tomajoha said:

WezV said:

HandwrittenHero said:

do people assume I'm selling a lemon and swerve it or is it suddenly unobtanium, rare wood era, mythical discontinued v1 formula etc.

exhibit A

https://reverb.com/item/39735673-insanely-rare-416-of-500-original-pearl-white-finish-fender-25th-anniversary-stratocaster-1979

Certificate of Merit 

"high standards of excellence"
Shipped from Netherlands.

A different type of high going on here.

Philly_Q

tomajoha said:

WezV said:

HandwrittenHero said:

do people assume I'm selling a lemon and swerve it or is it suddenly unobtanium, rare wood era, mythical discontinued v1 formula etc.

exhibit A

https://reverb.com/item/39735673-insanely-rare-416-of-500-original-pearl-white-finish-fender-25th-anniversary-stratocaster-1979

Certificate of Merit 

I wonder if it will sell at that price?  I've no idea if that's a fair representation of the value.

The thing is, as a collector's piece it's perfectly legitimate - if you want to display it or simply own it because it's a rare thing, then fine.  But as a guitar... it weighs nine pounds and every time you play it you'll end up with bits of white paint in your clothes.

WezV

in fairness, i think they usually sell for close to the price of a silver anniversary strat... but they always have the hyped descriptions about the rare original finish

terada

CloudNine said:

Agree with markj . I am not sure why it is, but I find that Gibson style guitars made by other manufactures are never quite there, and I mean that right from lower priced (Eastman et al), right up to top end. I have had numerous Collings versions of LP, ES, Jr etc., but always missing something to me. My current 59 reissue 335 is in a different league to those guitars entirely. Maybe it's the terrible build quality and poor tolerances, but whatever it is, I want and need it.  . 

I'm likely going to get a fair bit of flack for this, but I believe the deviation from 'perfect' is at least part of this.

The imperfections in an instrument give it character. Now obviously I'm not talking about anything significant (dodgy neck angles/finish falling off etc etc). But absolute perfection robs an instrument of anything unique.

I think I see it a bit like vocals. Yes you could auto tune everything to be exactly perfectly in pitch, but then you miss the subtleties, character and humanity of the music. Perhaps better to be as close to perfect so as to sound great, but far enough away as to sound and feel unique and natural.

Just to make it clear, these murphy lab finishes are completely unacceptable.

*ducks for cover*

ICBM

I once had a '79 Bronco in a plain white version of the Anniversary finish. Completely shattered into about 1/2"-size pieces all over the body, but none of it had fallen off and it was otherwise pristine. It actually looked very cool in an 'art finish' type of way, but I was too worried about damage to gig it. Apparently extremely rare, and I sold it to a collector for £450 when the going rate for them was about £250-£300.

skunkwerx

Why would you spend like £8000 on this when we have our own Ian Elson customs who can offer an unrivalled experience in bullshit for a questionable fraction of the price? 

Musicman20

I think I'd just get a Feline once you get to a certain price point. 

My two Gibsons are wonderful but the lottery of getting a 'good' one is absolutely insane. They should all be good, especially when you hit these TM prices.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

I once had a '79 Bronco in a plain white version of the Anniversary finish. Completely shattered into about 1/2"-size pieces all over the body, but none of it had fallen off and it was otherwise pristine. It actually looked very cool in an 'art finish' type of way, but I was too worried about damage to gig it. Apparently extremely rare, and I sold it to a collector for £450 when the going rate for them was about £250-£300.

@ICBM I bought a Bronco body for £35 from Roka's in Denmark Street for a "project".  It had a completely shattered finish, like you described, but it was bloody hard work to remove it. 

There was a thick plastic under-layer (Fullerplast?) which was completely impervious to things like Nitromors or paint strippers, I just had to use tons of coarse sandpaper.  Don't know why I bothered.

HandwrittenHero

Musicman20 said:

I think I'd just get a Feline once you get to a certain price point. 

My two Gibsons are wonderful but the lottery of getting a 'good' one is absolutely insane. They should all be good, especially when you hit these TM prices.

skunkwerx said:

Why would you spend like £8000 on this when we have our own Ian Elson customs who can offer an unrivalled experience in bullshit for a questionable fraction of the price? 

Pulled both these to quote because to some extent they go hand in hand and also answer a point raised in the Fender Custom Shop worth it or not thread...there is some amount of premium you do pay both for known quantity (you know what a Fender Strat is, can go to just about any guitar shop and play multiple) but also the clout and structure in place that you should theoretically be able to enforce your rights as a consumer if actually needed a lot easier with a big company who've sold through a retail structure that can't go up in smoke or to ground if convenient.

Disclaimer: not in any way on quality associating Feline to Elson here, merely to illustrate the difficulty cowboys do cause for the genuine.

wraub

chris78 said:

What amazes me still is that people are still prepared to pay 5-11k for a Gibson. You know there’s a high chance you’ll get one poorly built, sloppily finished etc and for all the lengths they go to, the pickups are muddy and woolly and sound nothing like a great vintage example.
For less than half the top end price, Patrick Eggle, for example, can make you a Macon which fixes some of the Les Paul flaws and is perfectly built or for top end, you’re in PRS Private Stock 594 realm which will have showier woods and build quality that Gibson can only dream of. If you want something closer to the original and way cheaper, I’ll stick my Eastman up against any Gibson and that cost £1750.
It might be harsh, but if after all this time you’re dumb enough to buy something because it says “Gibson” on the headstock, it’s your own fault.

terada said:

CloudNine said:

Agree with markj . I am not sure why it is, but I find that Gibson style guitars made by other manufactures are never quite there, and I mean that right from lower priced (Eastman et al), right up to top end. I have had numerous Collings versions of LP, ES, Jr etc., but always missing something to me. My current 59 reissue 335 is in a different league to those guitars entirely. Maybe it's the terrible build quality and poor tolerances, but whatever it is, I want and need it.  . 

I'm likely going to get a fair bit of flack for this, but I believe the deviation from 'perfect' is at least part of this.

The imperfections in an instrument give it character. Now obviously I'm not talking about anything significant (dodgy neck angles/finish falling off etc etc). But absolute perfection robs an instrument of anything unique.

I think I see it a bit like vocals. Yes you could auto tune everything to be exactly perfectly in pitch, but then you miss the subtleties, character and humanity of the music. Perhaps better to be as close to perfect so as to sound great, but far enough away as to sound and feel unique and natural.

Just to make it clear, these murphy lab finishes are completely unacceptable.

*ducks for cover*

I see some merit in both of these perspectives- I'm old enough and have been playing long enough to have seen Gibson go through many changes, and I've noticed their solutions to their issues almost always seem to be based around marketing... this is authentic, this is more authentic, this version is worth more because the nut and knobs are correct this time, etc.

The instruments themselves have varied, but the marketing has been pretty consistent.

I have played quite a few Gibsons- some have been very good, some have not. I get it- organic materials and human action creates variables. But, imo past a certain point they seem much better at the marketing than the guitars.

I have personally seen plenty of issues in new expensive instruments, and have seen and heard of countless others, which is inexcusable imo given how much they're charging... especially when it seems that a lot of the price goes back into marketing.

I recently picked up a Les Paul Guitar Shaped Object of Asian manufacture. It plays well, looks good, balances well and sounds great after a pickup swap, but sounded okay before. It is not a Chibson-type copy.

It has a (some kind of) mahogany body and neck, rosewood fingerboard, a bone nut, and (some kind of) a maple top. It's 24 3/4 scale, it weighs 8lbs 6ozs, and it sounds like a LP. It does not look exactly like a Gibson, the cutaway is different, and this bothers me not at all.

Finish imperfections? Yep- some sanding swirls under the finish, some overspray on the binding that didn't get scraped off, one tiny area sanded through to wood and a very tiny ding between the volume and tone knobs I didn't even notice until I'd had the guitar for a week. They are are very minor, and you have to look for them to see, but, still there. However, the assembly is solid, and none of the issues affect playability, structure, or sound.

I play this guitar every day, it makes me want to play. It gets the sounds right, the looks right, the feel right, and the finish isn't flaking off. Sure, it's a poly finish, but that's immaterial to me- I wanted a guitar that I could use a lot and enjoy a bunch, on a low budget, and that's exactly what I got. Brand new, this guitar currently sells in the US for $180.

They have been set-upon by resellers grabbing them up and increasing the prices by a hundred bucks or more, I was lucky to find one basically new locally before all that hit, and I paid $180.

Is it a Gibson? Nope. Did I expect one at this price? Not at all. Did I get alarmingly close? Yep. And, mine is a lesser example- one could easily spend a few hundred more, even a thousand, and do a lot better probably than mine, and possibly as good or better than a Gibson.

It can be done, for a lot less.

Rob1742

When things like this happen to a company, you either feel sorry for them, or you laugh or smile at their misfortune.

It will all depend on how you believe that company treats you or fellow consumers, which will depend on how you personally react to the issue.

So owning a true historic from around 6? years ago, and thinking I have the ultimate guitar, then the following year an even more ultimate one comes out, then another etc, I can’t help but be amused at their misfortune.

Yes I do have a very good instrument from them, but since buying that true historic I have purchased another 20 guitars from other manufacturers, just because I just feel a better connection towards the other companies than I do to Gibson.

So whether I am right or wrong doesn’t matter. As a customer of theirs I smile a little ( not a lot, but a little) at their misfortune, which I think tells you a lot about how they treat their customers and potential customers. 

Fifty9

This is absolutely their own fault for prioritising marketing and sales targets before bona fide care, craftsmanship and expertise as guitar makers. That it’s their premium line is a massive own goal.

Why on earth are they putting an unproven finish/process on £8k guitars?!?

Thank god I bought a 2017 blowout before the Custom Shop QC went right down the toilet  . Are these definitely only the Murphy labs? Why’d they use a different finish on this line vs the others? 

Philly_Q

Fifty9 said:

Thank god I bought a 2017 blowout before the Custom Shop QC went right down the toilet  . Are these definitely only the Murphy labs? Why’d they use a different finish on this line vs the others? 

Because they're going to chuck it in a freezer and/or take a scalpel to it, presumably.

Fifty9

Philly_Q said:

Fifty9 said:

Thank god I bought a 2017 blowout before the Custom Shop QC went right down the toilet  . Are these definitely only the Murphy labs? Why’d they use a different finish on this line vs the others? 

Because they're going to chuck it in a freezer and/or take a scalpel to it, presumably.

Yep undoubtedly is the right answer. Was still unproven tho - evidently. 

Philly_Q

One thing I haven't really been paying attention to during all this Murphy Labs hoo-hah - presumably they're still making "ordinary" Custom Shop reissues in gloss or VOS finishes?

HandwrittenHero

Philly_Q said:

One thing I haven't really been paying attention to during all this Murphy Labs hoo-hah - presumably they're still making "ordinary" Custom Shop reissues in gloss or VOS finishes?

Yes, think only in VOS though if I understand correctly