Weird things you never knew

EricTheWeary

sev112 said:

EricTheWeary said:

HAL9000 said:

That ‘ye’ (as in Ye Olde Shoppe) was pronounced ‘the’.

There was the letter Thorn in old English which was the th sound. It still exists in the Icelandic alphabet. As we started printing things in English we had mostly German printing sets that omitted the letter Thorn and Y was used to represent it. Hand writing it as a Y on something like a shop sign is a bit arse backwards as they could have used a Thorn but the original letter shape had fallen out of use. 
It takes about 1,000 years for a language to become unrecognisable. So the version of English in use when the Thorn was originally used would be unrecognisable to us today; Shakespeare for example is still modern English and that seems odd enough. 

Even the accents from 50 years ago are very difficult to understand. You can google audio clips of e.g cockneys (other cities are available) with transcripts and it is amazing how wordage has changed in such a short period during the post industrial revolution.  

I had a really crude (sound as well as language) as a teenager,  and I just could not recognise many /most of the words that my grandfather would have said

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 
I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

octatonic

ICBM

EricTheWeary said:

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 

I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

I think a large part of this is the Americanisation of our culture via film and TV.

[Old man shouts at clouds]

The other night the newsreader on the BBC had adopted the American style of leaving out "on" when describing something that happened on a specific day. (eg "President Biden met with Prime Minister Johnson Tuesday".) It sounded ridiculously contrived and I'm sure he was doing it deliberately rather than naturally... massively annoying. And on the fucking BBC! Which is supposed to be delivered in proper English.

[/Old man shouts at clouds]

EricTheWeary

ICBM said:ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 

I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

I think a large part of this is the Americanisation of our culture via film and TV.

[Old man shouts at clouds]

The other night the newsreader on the BBC had adopted the American style of leaving out "on" when describing something that happened on a specific day. (eg "President Biden met with Prime Minister Johnson Tuesday".) It sounded ridiculously contrived and I'm sure he was doing it deliberately rather than naturally... massively annoying. And on the fucking BBC! Which is supposed to be delivered in proper English.

[/Old man shouts at clouds]

EricTheWeary said:

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 

I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

I think a large part of this is the Americanisation of our culture via film and TV.

[Old man shouts at clouds]

The other night the newsreader on the BBC had adopted the American style of leaving out "on" when describing something that happened on a specific day. (eg "President Biden met with Prime Minister Johnson Tuesday".) It sounded ridiculously contrived and I'm sure he was doing it deliberately rather than naturally... massively annoying. And on the fucking BBC! Which is supposed to be delivered in proper English.

[/Old man shouts at clouds]

It is, although there is a tendency to describe things as an Americanism when they are not and American English is quite old fashioned in many ways. But English is a bastard language really and the process of it morphing into something else is pretty inevitable. 
If you listen to almost anyone from around the world speaking English it is effectively American English, we are the minority speakers now. 

springhead

ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 

I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

I think a large part of this is the Americanisation of our culture via film and TV.

[Old man shouts at clouds]

The other night the newsreader on the BBC had adopted the American style of leaving out "on" when describing something that happened on a specific day. (eg "President Biden met with Prime Minister Johnson Tuesday".) It sounded ridiculously contrived and I'm sure he was doing it deliberately rather than naturally... massively annoying. And on the fucking BBC! Which is supposed to be delivered in proper English.

[/Old man shouts at clouds]

I’m with you on that, really grates. Not quite as bad though as people saying “can I get “ when they mean “may I have “ or at least say “can I have”.  Grrrr.  

Adey

The made-up word GHOTI is pronounced "fish"

GH as in rough

O as in women

TI as in notion

viz

sev112 said:

mrkb said:

skullfunkerry said:

I think about this reasonably regularly:

Due to the presence of pregnant women, the average number of skeletons per human body is more than 1

And the average number of arms (and legs) is less than two, but the average number of heads is greater than one!

I think it comes across better we’re you to say that the average person has less than one leg.  It prompts a much better argument

Except of course that that’s not true

Neill

springhead said:

ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 

I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

I think a large part of this is the Americanisation of our culture via film and TV.

[Old man shouts at clouds]

The other night the newsreader on the BBC had adopted the American style of leaving out "on" when describing something that happened on a specific day. (eg "President Biden met with Prime Minister Johnson Tuesday".) It sounded ridiculously contrived and I'm sure he was doing it deliberately rather than naturally... massively annoying. And on the fucking BBC! Which is supposed to be delivered in proper English.

[/Old man shouts at clouds]

I’m with you on that, really grates. Not quite as bad though as people saying “can I get “ when they mean “may I have “ or at least say “can I have”.  Grrrr.  

Just to muddy the water, up here in Scotland it's common to say "can I get" instead of "can I have" and has been for as long as I can remember.  I don't think it's an American adoption. 

But I too used to get really upset at these so called "Americanisms" and I still can't do with folk calling a car bonnet a "hood" which some young people do.  I'm more laid back these days as I agree the language we speak is a product of centuries of evolution and influence.

What I still can't stand though is "lazy" language, either written or spoken.  Like when Radio 4's Evan Davies (who should know better) says "Let's get the weather" when he means let's listen to the weather forecast.  It also annoys me that the use of the word "of" in place of "have", as in "I could of played that better..." is becoming far too common.   

the_jaffa

I heard a "fact" on the radio this morning that Erinsborough was created as the fictional suburb of Melbourne because it was an anagram of Neighbours.

It clearly isn't though.

Cool story huh

skullfunkerry

dano said:

Hattigol said:

Last night, the current Mrs H said to me that a flame doesn't create a shadow. 

B*llocks I suggested back to her.

True enough, after a brief experiment with a candle and a torch, I got to eat some delicious humble pie as she was correct.

Anyone else discovered anything weird that they hadn't known previously?

Having thought about it, the answer is quite easy.

The flame is effectively  electromagnetic radiation, the light you can see and the heat you can feel. That has no physical properties, hence when illuminated with  torch there is nothing physical to absorb the light from the torch and hence cast a shadow on the wall.

I was thinking about it even more simply than that: a flame emits light, therefore how can it cast a shadow?

HAL9000

Neill said:

springhead said:

ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 

I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

I think a large part of this is the Americanisation of our culture via film and TV.

[Old man shouts at clouds]

The other night the newsreader on the BBC had adopted the American style of leaving out "on" when describing something that happened on a specific day. (eg "President Biden met with Prime Minister Johnson Tuesday".) It sounded ridiculously contrived and I'm sure he was doing it deliberately rather than naturally... massively annoying. And on the fucking BBC! Which is supposed to be delivered in proper English.

[/Old man shouts at clouds]

I’m with you on that, really grates. Not quite as bad though as people saying “can I get “ when they mean “may I have “ or at least say “can I have”.  Grrrr.  

Just to muddy the water, up here in Scotland it's common to say "can I get" instead of "can I have" and has been for as long as I can remember.  I don't think it's an American adoption. 

But I too used to get really upset at these so called "Americanisms" and I still can't do with folk calling a car bonnet a "hood" which some young people do.  I'm more laid back these days as I agree the language we speak is a product of centuries of evolution and influence.

What I still can't stand though is "lazy" language, either written or spoken.  Like when Radio 4's Evan Davies (who should know better) says "Let's get the weather" when he means let's listen to the weather forecast.  It also annoys me that the use of the word "of" in place of "have", as in "I could of played that better..." is becoming far too common.   

Presumably ‘get’ meaning acquire rather than fetch. Ok, it still grates but at least it makes sense.

I agree with you about ‘of’ instead of ‘have’. I’ve even heard people claim it’s part of the evolution of a language. No it isn’t - it’s just wrong.

Hattigol

Language evolves. Not so many years ago, the word stadiums was wrong. Now it's not, sadly.

equalsql

That nobody in the history of mankind has ever been named Furtlefartwad.

LastMantra

HAL9000 said:

Neill said:

springhead said:

ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:

One of my grandmother's friends was a man who wrote poetry and books in Black Country dialect and I think I understood it all at the time - listening into the conversations of elderly relatives some of whom would have been born in the 19th century. If I read those poems now it seems like a made up language, be very hard pressed to find anyone who speaks like that any more; certainly no one who isn't a pensioner. 

I guess how people spoke in the 1960s was closer to how they spoke in the 1860s than our dialects are to those now. 

I think a large part of this is the Americanisation of our culture via film and TV.

[Old man shouts at clouds]

The other night the newsreader on the BBC had adopted the American style of leaving out "on" when describing something that happened on a specific day. (eg "President Biden met with Prime Minister Johnson Tuesday".) It sounded ridiculously contrived and I'm sure he was doing it deliberately rather than naturally... massively annoying. And on the fucking BBC! Which is supposed to be delivered in proper English.

[/Old man shouts at clouds]

I’m with you on that, really grates. Not quite as bad though as people saying “can I get “ when they mean “may I have “ or at least say “can I have”.  Grrrr.  

Just to muddy the water, up here in Scotland it's common to say "can I get" instead of "can I have" and has been for as long as I can remember.  I don't think it's an American adoption. 

But I too used to get really upset at these so called "Americanisms" and I still can't do with folk calling a car bonnet a "hood" which some young people do.  I'm more laid back these days as I agree the language we speak is a product of centuries of evolution and influence.

What I still can't stand though is "lazy" language, either written or spoken.  Like when Radio 4's Evan Davies (who should know better) says "Let's get the weather" when he means let's listen to the weather forecast.  It also annoys me that the use of the word "of" in place of "have", as in "I could of played that better..." is becoming far too common.   

Presumably ‘get’ meaning acquire rather than fetch. Ok, it still grates but at least it makes sense.

I agree with you about ‘of’ instead of ‘have’. I’ve even heard people claim it’s part of the evolution of a language. No it isn’t - it’s just wrong.

Could've? 

sev112

It is evolution of language, because much language is learned by sound / hearing.  Then when you add some accents into that, or regional pronunciations, and put some listening errors in there, it forms part of that evolution.  It isn’t the only source / cause or evolution but it is part.

Because then people start spelling phonetically as they hear it. So they have heard someone saying could’ve and perfectly reasonably translated that phonetically as could of, albeit without doing the analysis as to what the words might actually be

similar to leaning French.  You just hear people say aujourd’hui, or qu’est-ce-que c’est ( or whoever they are typed) and just repeat them

if you took people from Cornwall, South and Nkrth Wales, Kent coast, cockneys, Brummies, Liverpool, Newcastle, central Scotland and highlands, Belfast and cork etc. And get them to read out a series of different words in their accents, and then ask primary age school kids to write down what they heard, there will be massive variation

male language fun methjnks

LastMantra

I like modern words and language. It's fun. 

thecolourbox

What I find weird in English, is how the following sentence makes sense without even thinking about it and it sounds perfectly normal:

"Can't you see the dog?"

But when you think of what the apostrophe means, the sentence is actually thus:

"Can not you see the dog?"

Which obviously sounds ridiculous. 

I wonder how this is explained to non-naive speakers? Or is it just something they are told "it just is that"

boogieman

You know that brown line that runs down men’s nutsack? That’s what turns into fanny lips if you were to be born female. As an early stage developing foetus we basically all share the same anatomy until we reach a certain point of growth. 

You can thank Naked Attraction for that particular nugget of information.  

drofluf

equalsql said:

That nobody in the history of mankind has ever been named Furtlefartwad.

I’m called Furtlefartwad…

….and so’s my wife  

scrumhalf

thecolourbox said:

What I find weird in English, is how the following sentence makes sense without even thinking about it and it sounds perfectly normal:

"Can't you see the dog?"

But when you think of what the apostrophe means, the sentence is actually thus:

"Can not you see the dog?"

Which obviously sounds ridiculous. 

I wonder how this is explained to non-naive speakers? Or is it just something they are told "it just is that"

Most languages have their "these are the rules, but..." moments. I like to think that we have them as a reward for not having grammatical genders or, as in the case of German, 437 words for "one" or "the" which vary according to grammatical case, gender and inside leg measurement of the person standing behind you.