Martin neck bow

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AlbertCAlbertC Frets: 911
edited July 2021 in Acoustics
I bought a brand new Martin 00-18 in April. The neck/action was fine when I bought it.
I picked it up today having not touched it for about 3 or 4 weeks and immediately saw the action has become very high (5mm+ on low E) and the neck has clearly bowed. Should I be concerned with a sudden shift like this? My other acoustics (kept in the same room) are all fine.
Presumably the shop I bought it would remedy this for free but it's probably a 2 hour 30 min round trip. Should I just by the necessary truss rod adjustment tool and do it myself?


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  • AmigoAmigo Frets: 119
    Over the last few weeks I noticed that all my guitars sounded higher pitched when I picked them up after a while, which I assumed was due to the wet weather of late that followed a rather long dry spell. The necks were not visibly affected though.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    AlbertC said:

    Should I just by the necessary truss rod adjustment tool and do it myself?
    Yes.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • AlbertCAlbertC Frets: 911
    ICBM said:
    AlbertC said:

    Should I just by the necessary truss rod adjustment tool and do it myself?
    Yes.
    Well that's pretty emphatic!
    Cheers, better buy myself the appropriate tool then


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  • AmigoAmigo Frets: 119
    Didn't the guitar come with its own tool?
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  • That seems like a dramatic increase at the 12th fret, I would certainly be concerned. I keep the action on my guitars about 2.30mm on the low E, perhaps your guitar was very dry when you bought it and is now very damp. Personally I would bring it back to the shop, a truss rod adjustment is not going to sort that out.
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  • guitarjack66guitarjack66 Frets: 1795
    Martins are getting a bad rep these days. This kind of problem is not uncommon it seems.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    That seems like a dramatic increase at the 12th fret, I would certainly be concerned. I keep the action on my guitars about 2.30mm on the low E, perhaps your guitar was very dry when you bought it and is now very damp. Personally I would bring it back to the shop, a truss rod adjustment is not going to sort that out.
    Maybe, maybe not. I would definitely try adjusting it first. It does sound like quite a lot, and it's possible the top has pulled up a bit as well. You may or may not be comfortable taking down a bridge saddle slightly yourself...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    That seems like a dramatic increase at the 12th fret, I would certainly be concerned. I keep the action on my guitars about 2.30mm on the low E, perhaps your guitar was very dry when you bought it and is now very damp. Personally I would bring it back to the shop, a truss rod adjustment is not going to sort that out.
    Maybe, maybe not. I would definitely try adjusting it first. It does sound like quite a lot, and it's possible the top has pulled up a bit as well. You may or may not be comfortable taking down a bridge saddle slightly yourself...
    It's a brand new Martin and a 2 1/2 hour round trip back to the shop. Once he starts messing with it he could be in real trouble quite quickly and then the shop will blame him for making the problem worse. Sounds like a "no-brainer" to me, back to the shop straight away.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    malcolmkindness said:

    It's a brand new Martin and a 2 1/2 hour round trip back to the shop. Once he starts messing with it he could be in real trouble quite quickly and then the shop will blame him for making the problem worse. Sounds like a "no-brainer" to me, back to the shop straight away.
    Well, for me it's an absolute no-brainer that you perform a simple adjustment which every guitarist should know how to do and which will not harm the guitar *before* you make a 2-1/2 hour trip which may then be completely unnecessary.

    If after that the action still isn't low enough, *then* maybe think about having a professional look at it if you're not comfortable shaving down a bridge saddle yourself.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    malcolmkindness said:

    It's a brand new Martin and a 2 1/2 hour round trip back to the shop. Once he starts messing with it he could be in real trouble quite quickly and then the shop will blame him for making the problem worse. Sounds like a "no-brainer" to me, back to the shop straight away.
    Well, for me it's an absolute no-brainer that you perform a simple adjustment which every guitarist should know how to do and which will not harm the guitar *before* you make a 2-1/2 hour trip which may then be completely unnecessary.

    If after that the action still isn't low enough, *then* maybe think about having a professional look at it if you're not comfortable shaving down a bridge saddle yourself.
    Of course I'd agree with your suggestion if it was a guitar that he had owned for years or just bought second hand, but he bought it new in a shop less than three months ago, surely he has some kind of warranty?
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  • john_ukjohn_uk Frets: 24
    Seriously, if you are having to ask what to do, don't even think about it...make that 2hr 30 min trip. Wish you all the best
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  • droflufdrofluf Frets: 3611
    john_uk said:
    Seriously, if you are having to ask what to do, don't even think about it...make that 2hr 30 min trip. Wish you all the best
    As someone who has habitually tinkered with stuff until it needs professional help (my motto should be “if it isn’t broken ‘fix’ it until it is”) I’d heartily endorse this approach. 
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  • BingManBingMan Frets: 35
    5mm seems extreme... i'd be hesitant to mess around with it and send it back
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    malcolmkindness said:

    Of course I'd agree with your suggestion if it was a guitar that he had owned for years or just bought second hand, but he bought it new in a shop less than three months ago, surely he has some kind of warranty?
    A truss rod adjustment is not a warranty issue, it's a user adjustment.

    Would you drive 2-1/2 hours to take it back under warranty if a string broke? Replacing a string is at about the same level of technical difficulty as adjusting a truss rod.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • john_ukjohn_uk Frets: 24
    edited July 2021

    A diagnosis is always a first quest before any adjustment and  an acceptable level of experience is of the essence. Anyone can turn a nut, not everyone understands why! You can't compare the changing of a string to a truss rod adjustment.

    Easier to copy and paste an answer..........................................


    "The risks when adjusting a truss rod are: 

    • The nut is stuck or you over-tighten and snap/round it off. 
    • You loosen it too far and the relief becomes too great and/or the rod rattles.
    • You tighten it too much causing back bow. 
    • You tighten it too much and it cracks the neck.

    Only the first and last are permanent.

    The long term risk is that the last one may not happen immediately. A change in humidity or string tension in the future may cause it to crack weeks or months after the adjustment.

    Any neck where the truss rod has caused damage will have had some preexisting defect. If there is no defects present you will be able to over tighten the TR until the guitar is basically impossible to play and not cause any damage. I don't recommend trying it but guitar necks are incredibly strong and generally only fail from impacts or due to defects"

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    john_uk said:

    "The risks when adjusting a truss rod are: 

    • The nut is stuck or you over-tighten and snap/round it off. 
    • You loosen it too far and the relief becomes too great and/or the rod rattles.
    • You tighten it too much causing back bow. 
    • You tighten it too much and it cracks the neck.
    Snap the rod? Crack the neck? Don't be ridiculous. 

    You're actually more likely to damage a guitar trying to get a stuck bridge pin out if you don't know what you're doing than by adjusting a truss rod.

    People are so ludicrously scared of these things it's untrue, and repeating myths about them just perpetuates it. It's a simple adjustment that anyone who has enough manual dexterity to actually play the thing can do themselves.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • john_ukjohn_uk Frets: 24
    Not much more I can say really...you have all the answers
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    john_uk said:
    Not much more I can say really...you have all the answers
    No, I don't - but the idea that a truss rod adjustment is a warranty issue that can only be done safely by a professional is just stupid. It's a user adjustment that any guitarist can and should be able to do themselves - it's often necessary a couple of times a year as temperature and humidity change. Obviously if you use the wrong tools or go at it like a gorilla then it's possible to cause damage, but that applies to everything you do on a guitar including changing strings. Do you do that yourself, or would you advise getting a shop to do it?

    If it matters - yes, if you use the wrong size Allen key then you can potentially damage the truss rod nut. But snapping a roughly 6mm diameter steel rod with the amount of torque you can put on with a hand tool is just not going to happen, so why exaggerate? And the only time you're likely to crack a neck by adjusting one is on a pre-1985 Rickenbacker with the very strange rods they used.

    I've been setting up guitars professionally for over thirty years and I can assure you that damaged truss rods are very rare - far, far rarer than guitars which are badly set up simply because the owners have read all the myths and nonsense about how if you turn it a fraction too far the neck will explode or something...

    Your own quote goes on to say -
    john_uk said:
    Any neck where the truss rod has caused damage will have had some preexisting defect. If there is no defects present you will be able to over tighten the TR until the guitar is basically impossible to play and not cause any damage. I don't recommend trying it but guitar necks are incredibly strong and generally only fail from impacts or due to defects"
    Which is true.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • john_ukjohn_uk Frets: 24
    ICBM said:
    john_uk said:
    Not much more I can say really...you have all the answers
    No, I don't - but the idea that a truss rod adjustment is a warranty issue that can only be done safely by a professional is just stupid. It's a user adjustment that any guitarist can and should be able to do themselves - it's often necessary a couple of times a year as temperature and humidity change. Obviously if you use the wrong tools or go at it like a gorilla then it's possible to cause damage, but that applies to everything you do on a guitar including changing strings. Do you do that yourself, or would you advise getting a shop to do it?

    If it matters - yes, if you use the wrong size Allen key then you can potentially damage the truss rod nut. But snapping a roughly 6mm diameter steel rod with the amount of torque you can put on with a hand tool is just not going to happen, so why exaggerate? And the only time you're likely to crack a neck by adjusting one is on a pre-1985 Rickenbacker with the very strange rods they used.

    I've been setting up guitars professionally for over thirty years and I can assure you that damaged truss rods are very rare - far, far rarer than guitars which are badly set up simply because the owners have read all the myths and nonsense about how if you turn it a fraction too far the neck will explode or something...

    Your own quote goes on to say -
    john_uk said:
    Any neck where the truss rod has caused damage will have had some preexisting defect. If there is no defects present you will be able to over tighten the TR until the guitar is basically impossible to play and not cause any damage. I don't recommend trying it but guitar necks are incredibly strong and generally only fail from impacts or due to defects"
    Which is true.
    If you know what you are doing then go ahead and make the adjustment. If you are having to ask what to do then go back to the shop. Thats the point.
    You have turned this whole discussion into a futile argument for arguments sakes. There is no valid point to what you are saying in context to what is being asked...just a futile analysis of nothingness.

    You even said to the guy "If after that the action still isn't low enough, *then* maybe think about having a professional look at it if you're not comfortable shaving down a bridge saddle yourself."Why not just ask him to do a neck reset whilst your'e at it.

    Truss Rods... I didn't realise I was reading Myths and conveying nonsense !!  We will just have to agree that we disagree. 
    Anyway, good luck with setting up guitars and hopefully making it to 31 years :)
    I'm done.

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  • BingManBingMan Frets: 35
    I think the other thing here is that it might not just be a simple case of adjusting the rod... It might be being caused by the top bellying or the bridge tilting or something. If you're unsure it'd be worth getting someone who knows what to look for to give it the once over 
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