Faux Binding - Tru oil alternative?

NCo

Hey everyone,

Has anyone tried adding faux binding to a Les Paul using the scraping method?

I'm finally ready to give it a go, and I'm wondering if  if there's any alternative to tru oil as a sealer once the maple cap has been exposed. From everything I read the tru oil gives the cap a dark colour, and I'd like to keep it lighter.

Thanks.

WezV

Tru oil really doesn't darken that much.     Its a very slight amber tint.  Most of the darkening effect happens even with the  clearest of finishes.

But you can use any oil and osmo does have less of a tint

Rabs

Osmo oil?

I used it a lot when I was working at the wood shop (so did everyone else there)..

They have like 100 different types though. The build I am doing at the moment I am thinking of using Osmo PolyX Clear... Some of their oils darken wood some dont... The oils that are white in colour are good for light woods...

NCo

Thanks for the head's up. Is there any specific Osmo product you'd recommend?

Andyjr1515

With the exception of gloss (which, in my opinion, is no good at all) the Osmo Polyx range is excellent.  It's low odour, wipeable and gives a great finish after a relatively few number of coats.

Generally, for a satin finish, I would use the Polyx Satin 3032.  But, if I wanted the colour to be pretty close to the fresh-sanded colour I would use their pretty unique Polyx RAW 3044  (they sell it in small tins).
It is specifically made to try to retain the fresh sanded colour of light woods.  While it does contain a whitener, if it is applied thinly enough (wipe on then wipe fully off), then it can be used over darker timbers without showing the whitener.

This was freshly sanded sycamore body wings and maple thru-fretboard:



This was the sycamore and maple with Tru-oil.  It is not a heavy tint but the Tru-oil and dampening brings out the yellow in the timber:


This was after I sanded it back down and applied Osmo RAW 3044:


This even had ebony on the back.  As long as the Osmo is wiped on then off, it stays black:


So if it was me trying to do what you asked, I would scrape the binding areas, apply a couple of wipe on wipe off to those areas (let dry in between) and then finish the whole guitar, including the binding, with the standard Polyx Satin 3032.  The 3032 won't penetrate the layer of 3044 and so your light binding should stay light.
 

TTony

Osmo Raw is supposed to keep the original colour of the wood unchanged.

Rabs

Yes as mentioned above...

Osmo actually have a pretty decent web site.. For each finish they show you a video of that particular finish being wiped on to a wooden floor so you get to see the wood before and after...  Most of their oils are very good.

I did a couple of walnut doors for my sister a few weeks ago and she oiled it herself and got in contact with Osmo. Apparently they were very helpful  Home - Osmo UK

Rabs

If you can find a small tin.. This stuff for non changing colour as mentioned above (amazon sell it)
Polyx-Oil Effect Raw - Osmo UK

NCo

Andyjr1515 said:

With the exception of gloss (which, in my opinion, is no good at all) the Osmo Polyx range is excellent.  It's low odour, wipeable and gives a great finish after a relatively few number of coats.

Generally, for a satin finish, I would use the Polyx Satin 3032.  But, if I wanted the colour to be pretty close to the fresh-sanded colour I would use their pretty unique Polyx RAW 3044  (they sell it in small tins).
It is specifically made to try to retain the fresh sanded colour of light woods.  While it does contain a whitener, if it is applied thinly enough (wipe on then wipe fully off), then it can be used over darker timbers without showing the whitener.

This was freshly sanded sycamore body wings and maple thru-fretboard:



This was the sycamore and maple with Tru-oil.  It is not a heavy tint but the Tru-oil and dampening brings out the yellow in the timber:


This was after I sanded it back down and applied Osmo RAW 3044:


This even had ebony on the back.  As long as the Osmo is wiped on then off, it stays black:


So if it was me trying to do what you asked, I would scrape the binding areas, apply a couple of wipe on wipe off to those areas (let dry in between) and then finish the whole guitar, including the binding, with the standard Polyx Satin 3032.  The 3032 won't penetrate the layer of 3044 and so your light binding should stay light.
 

Thank you for the useful information!

Since I'll be sanding a black area, that is a perfect solution, as the whitener would provide good contrast (and fit the neck binding colour) while not staining the black.

Two questions though:
You state I'll need to finish the whole guitar with the Polyx satin 3032. Do you actually mean the whole guitar or just blending it with the body around the faux binding?

The guitar is already finished in gloss nitro, will covering it with satin coats actually stick?

NCo

HAs anyone tried the Osmo Tints White 3040?

https://osmouk.com/faq/wood/polyx-oil-raw-3044-vs-tints-white-3040/

Seems like a good way to get an even lighter finish, and it would not require a top oil as they suggest to use it as a stand alone with a two coat application.

WezV

Raw wood and finished wood have different colours. That's just life.  A raw wood surface and finished surface reflect light in very different ways.   The finished surface is closer to the true colour of the wood.

Just like pine.  Looks white when unfinished but as soon as any finish hits it it jumps to yellow.  Maple isn't as severe as that  but can already vary from silver white to Amber in its raw state

You then have to consider the natural ageing of the wood.  That white pine or maple will yellow even without a finish just from UV, and then the finish will yellow it even more. 

The osmo raw does seem good at stopping  the yellowing effect of the finish.  I wonder if it also stops the yellowing effect of UV on the wood over time.

TTony

You can get little test sachets of Osmo.

Andyjr1515

NCo said:

Two questions though:
You state I'll need to finish the whole guitar with the Polyx satin 3032. Do you actually mean the whole guitar or just blending it with the body around the faux binding?

The guitar is already finished in gloss nitro, will covering it with satin coats actually stick?

Apols - I confused the issue.  I assumed that you were refinishing the whole thing rather than just touching up the binding area and so was just suggesting that the final finish would go over the whole thing. 

Once you have sealed the binding with the oil, what were your thoughts in terms of what to do next?

Andyjr1515

WezV said:

The osmo raw does seem good at stopping  the yellowing effect of the finish.  I wonder if it also stops the yellowing effect of UV on the wood over time.

So far so good on the three that I have done full finishes with. 

The sycamore bass was built around 5 years ago.  I saw it recently and it's the same colour as it was.

Two other full build I've seen since I did using the RAW version was using some English Walnut about 4 years ago.  This was the fresh sanded walnut on one of them:

And this was with the Polyx 3044 applied:

I've seen this one fairly recently too and it is pretty much the same now as it was then.  Whether it is the same in 40 years rather than 4 is anybody's guess, of course

I was so impressed with it, though, that I used it for a full-wall bookcase made from Canadian pine we had built in our front room.  That sits in full sunlight (well, being Derby, daylight is a more accurate term) every day and still looks pretty much the same as it did when I did it, again around 5 years ago. 

NCo

Andyjr1515 said:

Apols - I confused the issue.  I assumed that you were refinishing the whole thing rather than just touching up the binding area and so was just suggesting that the final finish would go over the whole thing. 

Once you have sealed the binding with the oil, what were your thoughts in terms of what to do next?

Either oil the exposed maple cap and leave it like that or add nitro coat and buff.

But, the Osmo does look like a great solution, just need to decide on the 3044/3032 VS double 3040 route.

Rabs

NCo said:

Andyjr1515 said:

Apols - I confused the issue.  I assumed that you were refinishing the whole thing rather than just touching up the binding area and so was just suggesting that the final finish would go over the whole thing. 

Once you have sealed the binding with the oil, what were your thoughts in terms of what to do next?

Either oil the exposed maple cap and leave it like that or add nitro coat and buff.

But, the Osmo does look like a great solution, just need to decide on the 3044/3032 VS double 3040 route.

I have been thinking about this for at least two weeks now and still cant quite decided between two or three of their oils   In truth most of them are really good and will do the job. It is just those details about which ones amber the wood and which dont and how you imagine you want the end result to look etc...

WezV

Andyjr1515 said:

WezV said:

The osmo raw does seem good at stopping  the yellowing effect of the finish.  I wonder if it also stops the yellowing effect of UV on the wood over time.

So far so good on the three that I have done full finishes with. 

The sycamore bass was built around 5 years ago.  I saw it recently and it's the same colour as it was.

Two other full build I've seen since I did using the RAW version was using some English Walnut about 4 years ago.  This was the fresh sanded walnut on one of them:

And this was with the Polyx 3044 applied:

I've seen this one fairly recently too and it is pretty much the same now as it was then.  Whether it is the same in 40 years rather than 4 is anybody's guess, of course

I was so impressed with it, though, that I used it for a full-wall bookcase made from Canadian pine we had built in our front room.  That sits in full sunlight (well, being Derby, daylight is a more accurate term) every day and still looks pretty much the same as it did when I did it, again around 5 years ago. 

It probably is helping reduce UV darkening too then. 

   Although I think you are crazy for trying to keep the raw wood colour in Walnut..... i love the rich depth of colour it gets when oiled.

Andyjr1515

WezV said:

 

   Although I think you are crazy for trying to keep the raw wood colour in Walnut..... i love the rich depth of colour it gets when oiled.

I do know where you are coming from. @WezV but there is inevitably a but. 

And it's a long story...so might be worth pulling up a chair.

The guy who I built this for, Mike, a number of years earlier had written and got published a biography of his friend, Merv, who was - man and boy - a woodcutter in the South West (we're talking lumberjack axeman type of woodcutter).  The walnut was from the last tree that Merv chopped down before he retired.

When Merv died, Mike inherited the log and it had been sitting in his family home on show for a decade or so. 

Mike asked me if it was possible to build a bass from it - but specifically wanted it to look the same colour as when it was in the lounge.  I tried the, 'You can't imagine how this will come to life with a normal finish that deepens and darkens walnut as good as any wood I know.'  No - it had to remain the same colour as in its log form.

And so - if you're still awake - that's why I used Osmo RAW

Edit:
Here's Merv 1948


And shortly before he retired in 2004



And apols to @NCo ;; for the fairly comprehensive thread hijack