Saving the planet / IPCC report on Climate Change Aug ‘21

Stratavarious

scrumhalf said:

Given the population growth in both India and China you have to wonder if anything we do as individuals will make any difference other than making us feel individually better.

We no longer have the likes of world wars, Spanish flu, Mao or Stalin to radically reduce populations. Less consumption has to be caused by fewer consumers. 

That is always the handy excuse.

Those populations are not polluting at the levels of the west though.   Complex issues with pensions and elderly welfare linked to having new young. 

viz

Great suggestions!

Electric cars is a tricky one. All our electricity is genuinely non-fossil-fuel based so I’m happy with the environmental impact of running ours. With the manufacturing of it (plastics, water, oil, and the batteries) it’s obviously a concern. New cars are dreadful but you need to have new cars in order to beget second hand ones! The one we’re getting is 2nd hand but yep, manufacturing is obviously a problem. I just have to hope we will take care of ours and that it will last a long long time.

Good food for thought about family size, repairing things, never flying again, not using A/C, insulating the house. And not buying plastic grass! I can definitely achieve that one!

maltingsaudio

What is the point of saving the planet if society is filled with selfish racist money grabbing idiots? What I’m saying is if we all think about what we do and how we behave we will get a lot further with this than just picking a couple of things to change personally and say I’ve done my bit.

Stratavarious

ThePrettyDamned said:

I've seen people replace grass lawns with artificial lawns.

How utterly fucking dumb and lazy and vain do you need to be to do that? If you physically cannot mow the lawn, pay a local kid to do it. Or replace the grass with clover and buttercup and other low-lying cover plants for a beautiful garden.

Plastic grass though?! Isn't that just crazy?! What a waste of resources. 

And we wonder why we have so few pollinating insects.

viz

maltingsaudio said:

What is the point of saving the planet if society is filled with selfish racist money grabbing idiots? What I’m saying is if we all think about what we do and how we behave we will get a lot further with this than just picking a couple of things to change personally and say I’ve done my bit.

I could probably dial down my selfish, racist, money-grabbing idiocy as well though, couldn’t I?

Kittyfrisk

Interesting article that relates both to energy use & recycling too...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-57897444

boogieman

scrumhalf said:

Given the population growth in both India and China you have to wonder if anything we do as individuals will make any difference other than making us feel individually better.

We no longer have the likes of world wars, Spanish flu, Mao or Stalin to radically reduce populations. Less consumption has to be caused by fewer consumers. 

We do have coronavirus though. Before we had the smarts to stop it rampaging through the world it probably would’ve culled a large amount of the population. That would’ve done the planet a massive favour. As a species we’re sometimes too clever for our own good, well as far as the planet is concerned. 

crunchman

Stratavarious said:

scrumhalf said:

Given the population growth in both India and China you have to wonder if anything we do as individuals will make any difference other than making us feel individually better.

We no longer have the likes of world wars, Spanish flu, Mao or Stalin to radically reduce populations. Less consumption has to be caused by fewer consumers. 

That is always the handy excuse.

Those populations are not polluting at the levels of the west though.   Complex issues with pensions and elderly welfare linked to having new young. 

Does that take account of outsourced emissions?  We have pretty much killed off pretty much all of our heavy industry, which has reduced the UK's nominal emissions but the emissions are just happening in China instead.  Then we are adding additional emissions to transport the goods from China to here.

The other thing we need to do is reduce the distances involved in supply chains.  If we manufacture stuff locally, and eat food grown locally, that will have a significant impact.

Dominic

viz said:

maltingsaudio said:

What is the point of saving the planet if society is filled with selfish racist money grabbing idiots? What I’m saying is if we all think about what we do and how we behave we will get a lot further with this than just picking a couple of things to change personally and say I’ve done my bit.

I could probably dial down my selfish, racist, money-grabbing idiocy as well though, couldn’t I?

" selfish,racist,money-grabbing idiots "................................I smell a student 
what a bizarre collection of non-sequiter tropes even when you do add some punctuation

Stratavarious

Bitcoin is in the top 30 energy consuming nations  

Danny1969

Although we are too dense to see it the future of the planet is actually in the hands of the poorest people. China, Brazil, Indonesia etc can wreck the climate because it's the their geography. Ultimately the only way forward is for the west to pay these countries money NOT to expand crop growth  / tree felling / massive coal stations etc. 

Ultimately that's the only way forward, share the wealth from here so the poorest countries can afford an environmental conscious. Then we might have a chance going forward.   

HAL9000

RaymondLin said:

re Electric cars, i don't think they are that great for the environment.  

I can picture 10 years from now there will be a HUGE amount of used battery we need to dispose of, can lithium battery be recycled?  and have we planned for this?  I can't imagine they are that bio-degradable. 

^This. I think it’s one of those things that will make towns and cities noticeably cleaner, but actually only moves the pollution up and/or down the road due to the manufacturing and disposal processes. Also, ethical concerns re mining rare earths - as I understand it a lot of the materials are mined in countries like D.R. Congo using slave/child labour with little regard for safety or the long-term effects of breathing or ingesting rare earths.

Kittyfrisk

Danny1969 said:

Although we are too dense to see it the future of the planet is actually in the hands of the poorest people. China, Brazil, Indonesia etc can wreck the climate because it's the their geography. Ultimately the only way forward is for the west to pay these countries money NOT to expand crop growth  / tree felling / massive coal stations etc. 

Ultimately that's the only way forward, share the wealth from here so the poorest countries can afford an environmental conscious. Then we might have a chance going forward.   

The countries causing the problems are not always poor.
Australia is the world's biggest exporter of coal... mostly to China.
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/australia-coal-mines/

Philtre

Nah, since "the big one" dinosaurs have been planning their comeback for a few million years now. Let them have their day.

RobDavies

I’m quite easily influenced and have pretty much given up meat and fish after seeing the two docs on Netflix, The Game Changers and Seaspiracy. 

I’ll still indulge occasionally but I’ve gone from eating chicken, fish or beef almost every night to eating plant based stuff nearly all the time. 

It’s a tiny step, but it’s something. 

I’d definitely be looking at getting a hybrid car when my lease is up in 2022. 

Danny1969

Kittyfrisk said:

Danny1969 said:

Although we are too dense to see it the future of the planet is actually in the hands of the poorest people. China, Brazil, Indonesia etc can wreck the climate because it's the their geography. Ultimately the only way forward is for the west to pay these countries money NOT to expand crop growth  / tree felling / massive coal stations etc. 

Ultimately that's the only way forward, share the wealth from here so the poorest countries can afford an environmental conscious. Then we might have a chance going forward.   

The countries causing the problems are not always poor.
Australia is the world's biggest exporter of coal... mostly to China.
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/australia-coal-mines/

Yeah I know, watched a documentary on it just 2 days ago .... but the reason they want the coal is at the moment it's their cheapest option to generate power. Then of course there is the knock on effect of Australia needing to sell the coal for their economy and the Russians needing to sell natural gas for theirs etc. Australia could be solar rich, 3 quarters of the country is uninhabited due to heat and remoteness so it's not like they don't have the room for it, it's just the logistics of selling it.

Could you ever export electricity from a continent thousands of miles away to Europe or Asia ? 

Kittyfrisk

^ A mate of mine (no pun intended) works for a major coal producing company in Australia.
I put it to him a while back that it was completely barking mad not to have set up solar generation capacity in the uninhabited parts of the interior.
He reckoned it was simply that the mining industry has vested interests that have major political clout, so mining continues as a big employer.
Also there was no real national infrastructure in place, as the country is composed of autonomous states & they couldn't or wouldn't agree a single project.
Also, (sweeping generalisation here) there is a mega 'blokey' attitude that seems to prevail out there.
He sent me this after I'd bollocked him about what he was doing... https://worldnewsera-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/worldnewsera.com/news/startups/germanys-green-energy-failure-germany-turns-back-to-coal-and-natural-gas-as-millions-of-its-solar-panels-are-blanketed-in-snow-and-ice-tech-news-startup/amp/

maltingsaudio

Dominic said:

viz said:

maltingsaudio said:

What is the point of saving the planet if society is filled with selfish racist money grabbing idiots? What I’m saying is if we all think about what we do and how we behave we will get a lot further with this than just picking a couple of things to change personally and say I’ve done my bit.

I could probably dial down my selfish, racist, money-grabbing idiocy as well though, couldn’t I?

" selfish,racist,money-grabbing idiots "................................I smell a student 
what a bizarre collection of non-sequiter tropes even when you do add some punctuation

Wow!! Student in the vein of every days a school day then yes, but never had a student loan but would have had to pay it off by 10 years ago. You do the maths.
And yes @viz the biggest change will come about by attitudes not actions, they will follow.

Now off to clean my sandals, smoke a joint, and dowse myself in patchouli oil! 

SteveRobinson

Simonh said:

Stop buying anything made in China

Stop buying anything you don't 100% need.

Stratavarious

But I want it!