Saving the planet / IPCC report on Climate Change Aug ‘21

Bridgehouse

crunchman said:

Stratavarious said:

scrumhalf said:

Given the population growth in both India and China you have to wonder if anything we do as individuals will make any difference other than making us feel individually better.

We no longer have the likes of world wars, Spanish flu, Mao or Stalin to radically reduce populations. Less consumption has to be caused by fewer consumers. 

That is always the handy excuse.

Those populations are not polluting at the levels of the west though.   Complex issues with pensions and elderly welfare linked to having new young. 

Does that take account of outsourced emissions?  We have pretty much killed off pretty much all of our heavy industry, which has reduced the UK's nominal emissions but the emissions are just happening in China instead.  Then we are adding additional emissions to transport the goods from China to here.

The other thing we need to do is reduce the distances involved in supply chains.  If we manufacture stuff locally, and eat food grown locally, that will have a significant impact.

It's not as simple as that in many cases.

Mike Berners-Lee has done some brilliant work on total carbon footprint for a number of interesting cases.

Tomatoes - the total carbon footprint of a tomato grown in Spain and imported to the UK then sold in a supermarket is less than that of a tomato grown in Kent and shipped to the same supermarket. 

The obvious answer is not always the right answer

Dominic

SteveRobinson said:

Simonh said:

Stop buying anything made in China

Stop buying anything you don't 100% need.

Stop buying anything.Stop eating what you like .stop travelling the world .stop driving proper cars and motorcycles ,stop having holidays abroad ,stop buying fashionable clothes
just kill yourself....... it'll be more fun.

grappagreen

We don't need to save the planet. Earth will be just fine..

Oh, you want somewhere that's inhabitable? Ahh.. then realistically we may have to roll back the clock to a world that nobody wants to inhabit! The irony...

The solution requires a globally coordinated effort on a scale never achieved in our history and unless any technological breakthroughs come to fruition quickly a significant change in the way we live our lives and expectations.

We can't seem get the people in our neighbourhood to agree where the dog waste bin should go...as for globally coordinated efforts...

As my children grew up I was looking forward to seeing how the next generation would react to the issue given the fact that they've been brought up and educated in midst of it all.. I'm ashamed to say that neither of them appear to give a fuck..

Now, if humans lived for a 1000 years things might be different - but they don't and hence..

skunkwerx

I just don’t give a shit anymore. 

Fuck the world.

Snap

Until China addresses it's pollution, anything any of us do really is pissing in the wind. The only thing our own changes will achieve is possibly making us feel a bit better about ourselves.

That's not abdicating responsibility, it's a hard fact.

Jetsam1

Earth will be fine for another couple of billion years. We will just experience another in a long chain of mass extinction events.

Something else will evolve, maybe not intelligent, but as a species are we really as clever as we think we are?

Temporally we aren't even all that successfull, 100,000 years or so? Not all that great.

Danny1969

Snap said:

Until China addresses it's pollution, anything any of us do really is pissing in the wind. The only thing our own changes will achieve is possibly making us feel a bit better about ourselves.

That's not abdicating responsibility, it's a hard fact.

Well I suppose in a way we drive China's pollution. We keep buying the phones, laptops, TV's etc at an ever increasing rate leading them to constantly ramp up production and ever increase their carbon footprint. 

If no one buys it, they won't manufacture it. 

Dominic

I was very anti-green agenda until I had the Covid jabs and now I have become a Green Crusader.Mad for it ...
It's true ;the government do put things in the vaccine to manipulate the population !
They are making me do it and have infiltrated my wasteful DNA .
I'm cutting (and composting )my Lawn with scissors ......no petrol polluting mower for me !
I'm taking my 2 week holiday in Devon ......of course I'll be walking there and should arrive just a week after it's time to start walking home .

Greatape

Danny1969 said:

Snap said:

Until China addresses it's pollution, anything any of us do really is pissing in the wind. The only thing our own changes will achieve is possibly making us feel a bit better about ourselves.

That's not abdicating responsibility, it's a hard fact.

Well I suppose in a way we drive China's pollution. We keep buying the phones, laptops, TV's etc at an ever increasing rate leading them to constantly ramp up production and ever increase their carbon footprint. 

If no one buys it, they won't manufacture it. 

That's exactly correct: almost everything that was made in the west is now made in China. We've externalised our manufacturing footprint. 

Travel is a big one. Personal car use, long haul flights, long-distance freight. It's not going to go away but the footprint needs to be reduced. The added benefit would be that if you had to think twice before jumping in the car to pop to the Tesco Metro half a mile away, we'd be on the way to a healthier nation, too. Meanwhile, though: spacebound billionaires having lightsaber duels with their schlongs. 

Re: Greens - too busy immolating themselves in identify politics firestorm right now to actually pursue their supposed prime directive. 

We do need to get to grips with the idea of 'enough.' Maybe we don't need that fourth telecaster? Good personal choices on the part of well-meaning individuals will only going to go so far, though; govts need to stop abdicating responsibility and step up in such a manner that does not place the heaviest burden on the poorest. An equitable solution being some kind of personal carbon budget, perhaps. 

ThePrettyDamned

Snap said:

Until China addresses it's pollution, anything any of us do really is pissing in the wind. The only thing our own changes will achieve is possibly making us feel a bit better about ourselves.

That's not abdicating responsibility, it's a hard fact.

Source for the fact? 

I mean china's own pollution, not offshore manufacturing to sell goods to Europe and the USA. 

WiresDreamDisasters

This thread encapsulates the whole problem with the entire "save the planet" philosophy IMO.

Focuses purely on restrictions, and limiting human ability. No imagination. No forward thinking. No actual belief in a better world. No Jetsons grand visions, and no Arthur C. Clarke plans or goals. No vision. No smarts. No moxxie.

WiresDreamDisasters

ThePrettyDamned said:

Snap said:

Until China addresses it's pollution, anything any of us do really is pissing in the wind. The only thing our own changes will achieve is possibly making us feel a bit better about ourselves.

That's not abdicating responsibility, it's a hard fact.

Source for the fact? 

I mean china's own pollution, not offshore manufacturing to sell goods to Europe and the USA. 

They're not being coerced into being the world's number one manufacturer, and they're not being forced to do it either. They've even set up the Silk & Belt Road Initiative in order to capture even more of the world's manufacturering base. The simple reality is that whilst the majority of our products are made there, that's how China wants it - and they don't particularly give a toss about ethics, IP, or the environment.

earwighoney

Creed_Clicks said:

Guitars made out of material other than wood. There are options currently but they are either too heavy or too expensive for the mass market.
So much plastic on guitars as well. Hopefully these could be replaced as well.
Getting rid of plastic packaging would be great but cannot see it happening. Go into any supermarket and 99% of the products use plastic.
The amount of plastic that litters the roads when you look up closely is shocking. You might not notice when you pass by in the car, but if you are walking you can see bits and bobs thrown everywhere.

Creed, I can't give you a source for it but for carbon fibre acoustic guitars they use a lot of resources per instrument, they have a huge environmental impact even if they are not using wood.

Dominic said:

I wouldn't be doiing many any of those things ; Certainly wouldn't be going vegetarian  or wearing secondhand clothes thanks very much and the electric car thing is a ridiculous oxymoron ......all told more damage to environment than petrol cars .
One huge issue that I notice which really is so simple and a minor inconvenience is why do people have such hot houses with central heating turned up ;totally needless and actually unhealthy .Some homes are just unbearable.
Imagine the savings if everybody knocked it down to a perfectly comfortable 17/18 degrees .....most people seem to run at about 22.
We don't have Central Heating by choice , not for 20 years and are very acclimatised .It really knocks me over when I walk into a home just how hot and uncomfortable it is ......I can't breathe..........yet there they are with the noble Tesla on the driveway doing their bit for the environment !!!
Domestic heating/gas boilers are probably the biggest issue across the globe and far more significant than traffic ......if everybody attuned to a 25% reduction the carbon savings would be a Tsunami of positive action......and just maybe we wouldn't have to consider wearing somebody else's smelly kaks !

Sorry to ask a stupid question but what do you use to keep your house warm if you don't use central heating?
Like yourself I have a huge problem with central heating, in my house I'd put it for half hour stretches here and there as otherwise I struggle to breathe.

scrumhalf said:

Given the population growth in both India and China you have to wonder if anything we do as individuals will make any difference other than making us feel individually better.

We no longer have the likes of world wars, Spanish flu, Mao or Stalin to radically reduce populations. Less consumption has to be caused by fewer consumers. 

China's population will be shrinking, which is why they have quietly brought in a max of 3 children per families now, but few are having that many kids as they are really expensive.

IMO overpopulation is the main issue.

MatthewShreddery

Teetonetal

We switched from oil to warm pump central heating. This included some compulsory insulation upgrade.

also we recycle to the extend that our weekly rubbish is one 8 liter bag for a family of 4

we grow as much produce as we can. Which saves on car trips to the shops, generally we buy as little as possible and we try to buy 2nd hand.

we also bike rather than drive. When possible.

none of this is due to wanting to reduce carbon footprint, it’s just money saving, but it all has a small positive impact.

Greatape

MatthewShreddery said:

See the other thread on this. 

Spokesman for polluting industries 

MatthewShreddery

Greatape said:

MatthewShreddery said:

See the other thread on this. 

Spokesman for polluting industries 

Link please

EDIT - ignore, found it.
Will read. Good to get as many points of view on all these important issues and not just accept the mainstream narrative

Danny1969

Teetonetal said:

We switched from oil to warm pump central heating. This included some compulsory insulation upgrade.

also we recycle to the extend that our weekly rubbish is one 8 liter bag for a family of 4

we grow as much produce as we can. Which saves on car trips to the shops, generally we buy as little as possible and we try to buy 2nd hand.

we also bike rather than drive. When possible.

none of this is due to wanting to reduce carbon footprint, it’s just money saving, but it all has a small positive impact.

That's certainly one of the big reasons I'm the same, need more money then spend less money but it does have a positive impact on the environment. 
It's a shame not everybody feels the same.

YellowLedBetterMan

I will assume that the majority of people who use this forum are older than I am (I mean from the stuff half of you talk about, I'd wager many are twice as old as me or more), and it's refreshingly positive to see people older than me who actually care even a little bit about contemporary environmental issues.

Rocker

A number of posters said that they gave up red meat [to save the planet].  How does this self deprivation of an essential part of our natural diet, help the planet?

Wind turbines located in the sea and windfarms are usually presented as the 'solution' to our long term electricity needs.  When in place, electricity generated by wind turbines is 100% green.  No doubting that fact.  However it is the immense amount of concrete, metals etc. needed to build and erect each wind turbine that is the problem.  If each turbine worked at 100% efficiency for 1000 years, it is doubtful if that 100% green electrical output would compensate for the environmental damage incurred during it's construction and erection in situ.  And it is a fact that we need an electric generation backup, coal/hydro/nuclear?, to supply power when the wind does not blow or demand is abnormally heavy.  Having studied this issue in great detail over a number of years, I have come to the conclusion that wind generated electricity is, at best, only going to be a small part of the electricity generation system in the future.

I concur with the suggestions that greater insulation levels in houses, reduced temperatures in houses etc. are practical measures that can be taken by everyone now and each action taken in this regard, will have a small but measurable effect on our planet.