e-scooter crash

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Do we know the stats on these kinds of accidents happening with an e-scooter versus a bike? How have we managed to go hundreds and hundreds of years without social-wide mania and panic over bikes and without hundreds and thousands of life-changing injuries and deaths?

    All I could find was this:
    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9211043/The-road-users-statistically-likely-kill-others.html

    Which seems to suggest that cyclists are not a huge concern when it comes to causing deaths. No data on e-scooters though.
    It is pretty well accepted that riding a bike on a crowded pavement is a twat thing to do and schools often run bike riding classes covering all the basics.  Suspect you are not comparing like with like.

    I don't see kids cycling in a shopping mall.

    How does that in anyway address my question???

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=woman+killed+by+a+cyclist+on+the+pavement






    It seems death and injury caused by cyclists is well documented and significant. I was hit by a middle aged woman cycling too fast and sent flying. She sped off and left me there. I damaged my knee and can no longer run so I fucking hate cyclists on pavements.





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  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2419
    The issue I have with cyclists using pavements, footpaths and any shared cycle/pedestrian ways is that they rarely, in my experience, warn of their approach with a bell or even a shout. This applies equally to riders of electric scooters and skateboards. Pedestrians are caught unawares and it is particularly hazardous for dog walkers. So you get the sort of accident that @Fretwired referred to and the subject of this thread.
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  • I simply want to explore whether the claim that "it's not technology that is the problem" actually stands up to scrutiny or not. On the face of it, it doesn't seem to.

    Death and injury caused by cyclists exists, and it is well documented. Correct. But it isn't significant. Not when compared with cars, trucks, and other HGV's.

    It seems to me that these e-scooters are a lot more dangerous than bikes, because of a few things:

    - The type of person riding an e-scooter (usually younger, less experienced, less concerned with everyone around them, more of a modern "fuck you" attitude)
    - The type of places where e-scooters are ridden (you do see them predominantly on the pavement, in public parks, and I've even seen them in shopping malls and cinemas!)

    To me it seems that they're capable of greater speeds than bikes, faster acceleration, and in the wrong hands, are far more dangerous. 

    Bye!

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  • danishbacondanishbacon Frets: 2694
    I simply want to explore whether the claim that "it's not technology that is the problem" actually stands up to scrutiny or not. On the face of it, it doesn't seem to.

    Death and injury caused by cyclists exists, and it is well documented. Correct. But it isn't significant. Not when compared with cars, trucks, and other HGV's.

    It seems to me that these e-scooters are a lot more dangerous than bikes, because of a few things:

    - The type of person riding an e-scooter (usually younger, less experienced, less concerned with everyone around them, more of a modern "fuck you" attitude)
    - The type of places where e-scooters are ridden (you do see them predominantly on the pavement, in public parks, and I've even seen them in shopping malls and cinemas!)

    To me it seems that they're capable of greater speeds than bikes, faster acceleration, and in the wrong hands, are far more dangerous. 
    There are also bags of difference in terms of control, stopping power, ability to quickly manoeuvre, even visibility possibly?
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26465

    Death and injury caused by cyclists exists, and it is well documented. Correct. But it isn't significant. Not when compared with cars, trucks, and other HGV's.
    I guess the question isn't whether it's significant, but rather how significant it is relative to their utility.

    And, of course, how regulated they are.

    To me it seems that they're capable of greater speeds than bikes, faster acceleration, and in the wrong hands, are far more dangerous. 
    Indeed...my perspective is that with effort you can easily hit greater speeds on a bike. Back when I used to cycle a lot, it wasn't unusual for me to get to 30-40mph, and on a few occasions faster (actually 54mph was my record, but that was fucking terrifying and not an experience I'd care to repeat). So...bikes can get to much higher speeds than e-scooters.

    What they can't do is get to those speeds anywhere you'd see a pedestrian. You need a clear run, a good surface and absolutely zero potential hazards to dodge.

    It also requires a level of physical fitness that most folk won't ever reach.

    E-scooters have none of those barriers to get to speeds where they'd present a clear danger to anybody in the vicinity; it's entirely down to how ballsy (and stupid) the rider is. Add to that the fact that, at any speed greater than walking pace, they're inherently less stable (by design) than a bike, and you've created a situation where they present a very real and direct danger to anybody in front of them. I would argue that all hands are the wrong hands when ridden in public.
    <space for hire>
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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085
    I think bicycles are worse , I’ve been hit by a kid on a small bike at relatively low speed ripped my jeans leg and cut , but if you got hit by a mountain bike type thing that kids and teens wheely through town It would be worse .  To be fair a lot of disability scooters are ridden by people who don’t know what they’re doing half the time and some go along at quite a clip.

    i used to ride my bmx on the pavement as it was safer , car riders are notoriously bad here 
    If regulation gets involved , you’ll probably end up having to wear a helmet , tax insurance etc and once again people who are less well off will suffer 
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  • YorkieYorkie Frets: 1451
    To me it seems that they're capable of greater speeds than bikes, faster acceleration, and in the wrong hands, are far more dangerous. 
    Again, that's a regulation problem, not technology. All these things can and should be regulated, including speed and acceleration. Lorries can also be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, but you do need a full Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC) to drive those. This should not be different.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I want to declare that I 
    also fucking hate seeing cyclists and e-scooters on pavements. 

    Jon
    Adopted northerner with Asperger syndrome. I sometimes struggle with empathy and sarcasm – please bear with me.   
    My trading feedback: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/210335/yorkie

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  • euaneuan Frets: 1401
    There was 24k deaths and serious injuries on the roads last year, just in case you want to get annoyed about something that is actually significant.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    I think bicycles are worse , I’ve been hit by a kid on a small bike at relatively low speed ripped my jeans leg and cut , but if you got hit by a mountain bike type thing that kids and teens wheely through town It would be worse .  To be fair a lot of disability scooters are ridden by people who don’t know what they’re doing half the time and some go along at quite a clip.

    i used to ride my bmx on the pavement as it was safer , car riders are notoriously bad here 
    If regulation gets involved , you’ll probably end up having to wear a helmet , tax insurance etc and once again people who are less well off will suffer 
    Currently.
    But they are illegal so you are only getting a relatively small number of people riding them.

    The thing about e-scooters was they are small, light and fast.
    You can fold them up and take them on public transport.
    You can carry them into places.
    They are convenient and fit into people's lives better than bikes do.

    Bikes are bigger, heavier, more easily stolen (because you have to lock them up outside) and you can't take them into shops.
    You're also supposed to ride the on the road, which most people do.

    What this means in practical terms is you will see a lot of the-scooters on the footpaths if they are legalised.
    My year in Singapore was spent dodging commuters and delivery drivers riding on footpaths, usually on their phones.
    At night you don't hear them and you don't see them.

    If/when mass adoption occurs you will see what I mean.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11415
    edited July 2021
    I simply want to explore whether the claim that "it's not technology that is the problem" actually stands up to scrutiny or not. On the face of it, it doesn't seem to.

    Death and injury caused by cyclists exists, and it is well documented. Correct. But it isn't significant. Not when compared with cars, trucks, and other HGV's.

    It seems to me that these e-scooters are a lot more dangerous than bikes, because of a few things:

    - The type of person riding an e-scooter (usually younger, less experienced, less concerned with everyone around them, more of a modern "fuck you" attitude)
    - The type of places where e-scooters are ridden (you do see them predominantly on the pavement, in public parks, and I've even seen them in shopping malls and cinemas!)

    To me it seems that they're capable of greater speeds than bikes, faster acceleration, and in the wrong hands, are far more dangerous. 

    True, but you missed an important point.

    They have very small wheels relative to a bike.  If they hit a pothole (or an uneven paving stone if ridden on the pavement), you are much more likely to end up going over the bars than on a bike.

    My sister-in-law and her fiance are both plods in the Met.  They told me about an incident with someone on an E scooter who had gone over the bars and hit his head.  He was in a coma, and was expected to be a vegetable if he ever came out of it.  That was a couple of years ago when E scooters were a lot less common than they are now.

    I think it was said in the other thread that they should be limited to 10mph.  We really need to push cycling in preference to E scooters.  Change the law on Ebikes so that they can legally provide assistance up to 20 mph to encourage them rather than scooters.
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3822
    edited July 2021
    They should be a good thing. We should be pedestrianising town centres, making proper cycle, scooter areas and encouraging people to use them surely? 

    Only thing about the UK is the weather.

    All these things should have, at least, a bell by law. 
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  • olafgartenolafgarten Frets: 1648
    I think the main draw of these over bikes is that they are small and tend to be more stable than a bike (requires less effort for the rider).

    I think there is a place for them if they are made much slower. If you are limited to a more sensible speed (maybe 7 mph) they will be much safer on pavements. Roads aren't really an option due to potholes. 
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    We should be pedestrianising town centres, making proper cycle, scooter areas and encouraging people to use them surely? 
    And they'd be full of joggers and dog walkers.

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    There's a bit of a transition stage here at the moment where people are getting used to them. In places like San Fransisco they have been popular for quite a while so people look out for them. They are dangerous but we have to get people out of cars and if they are too lazy to ride a bike or can't store one then I would rather them have a scooter than a car. 

    They are illegal in this country for use on public roads unless they are the official rental type with indicators etc. The police do confiscate them here and fine now and then but there just aren't that many coppers patrolling these days so 99% of scooter riders on private scooters get away with it. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • dindudedindude Frets: 8534
    Cyclists on pavements are annoying but generally going pretty slow and look conscious that they’re doing something wrong and looking out. Generally.

    escooters I’ve come across are flying around at 20/30mph weaving in and out of people, it’s a game and it’s way more dangerous than bicycles. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    edited July 2021
    And don't forget about mobility scooters, or where I live they're called mobility scooters for the morbidly obese as it seems mostly fat people use them. Horrible things which go too fast - up to 8 mph. Users do not need to meet minimum eyesight standards for driving a car, buy insurance or have a driving licence, and they don't need training before they're allowed to ride them.

    So as a pedestrian walking on the pavement you have to look out for e-scooters, bicycles and mobility scooters .. and the walking dead (teenagers walking slowly whilst reading their smartphone) who are not paying attention to anything.

    Best thing to do is stay at home ...




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  • ReverendReverend Frets: 4974
    They should be a good thing. We should be pedestrianising town centres, making proper cycle, scooter areas and encouraging people to use them surely? 

    Only thing about the UK is the weather.

    All these things should have, at least, a bell by law. 
    of the 20 most cycle-friendly cites in the world, at 15of them have a lot more rain that London, and the rest have similar amounts of rain. 

    https://www.wired.com/2015/06/copenhagenize-worlds-most-bike-friendly-cities/
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11415
    Reverend said:
    They should be a good thing. We should be pedestrianising town centres, making proper cycle, scooter areas and encouraging people to use them surely? 

    Only thing about the UK is the weather.

    All these things should have, at least, a bell by law. 
    of the 20 most cycle-friendly cites in the world, at 15of them have a lot more rain that London, and the rest have similar amounts of rain. 

    https://www.wired.com/2015/06/copenhagenize-worlds-most-bike-friendly-cities/

    Rain isn't a big issue.  Just get some decent waterproofs.

    I'd get just as wet walking to the station if I didn't cycle.
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  • IamnobodyIamnobody Frets: 6887
    edited July 2021
    euan said:
    There was 24k deaths and serious injuries on the roads last year, just in case you want to get annoyed about something that is actually significant.
    It’s worth breaking the numbers down before we get too annoyed.

    Deaths:  1580

    Seriously injured can range from a cut or broken limb to being left in a vegetative state. 

    Previously known as stevebrum
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  • StratavariousStratavarious Frets: 3599
    We can put up fabric covers over pedestrianised areas too.. should be next step in making city centres commercially efficient places with climate change to deal with too.
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